If BJ is a BJJ black belt, why does he not submit people off his back?

Im sure BJ can submitt from his back although doing into some of his recent opponets would be difficult for anyone. I have a book on BJ and it seems he really believes in the top position as Beebs said earlier look what he did to Matt Hughes in the rematch he off his back swung around to take the back of Hughes an incredible move to a great grappler (Hughes). BJ has displayed some fantastic sweeps and is great at not taking to much damage in his guard as far as GNP goes and its very difficult to pass his guard he has amazing control. So BJ has a great guard it just doesnt seem going for armbars and triangles are his specialty.

Another thing is how many fights has BJ spent any real length of time on his back ? Hughes II we already went over how he took his back at one point, the 2 GSP fights, the recent Frank Edgar fight, the Pulver bouts (submitted him once and in the 1st fight just ran out of time in one of the rounds), Renzo fight and in the Serra bout. Good luck submitting some of those guys with anything especially off your back.

I dont know what Yaca is on about saying BJ isnt that accomplished in BJJ isnt winning the World Championship accomplishment enough ? Go look at any top level BJJ fighter and they all seem to have an area that there are not basically perfect at compared to other areas of their game. BJ's Jiujitsu game is at its best on top he has good passes, a tight mount, outstanding back control and when he locks in a choke good ****ing luck.

 

He doesn't go to his back out of choice. If he gets put there ala GSP, it's because he isn't in great shape or too small. If he ain't put on his back, he has the confidence and boxing skills to close the show.

Either BJ couldn't get off against Frankie because of age or speed. It could be one or both.

 

It is very hard to submit someone from your back when you have a wrestler on top who knows how to defend submissions. This is the problem BJJ guys are now facing. They need to evolve their game from their guard. However BJJ is still a risk for every second that someone is on top of them.

 

I never said he wasnt accomplished, he just hasnt accomplished anything in bjj since 2000, in ten years.:deal

I proved specifically with the leo vieira training and the jail break against gsp of all people that he has some unbelievable skills. but he is certainly not the most aggressive bjj fighter from the bottom. or the most accomplished bjj artist.

:happy thats true of anybody if I locked in a rear naked choke on you the cnances of your escape are unlikely doesnt make me special. its getting the choke locked in the first place that against a good defender that can be difficult ..... and of course getting the opponents back especially guys now that train to defend in all positions.

 

Actually you just proved my point. Having a black belt in mma is useless because all you need to know are the basics. Which is exactly what I was saying all along.

 

because you said so? Nice argument there.

Just because the technique is classic, doesn't make it easy. A punch is classic, but properly doing it against a competent opponent is not, same with a sub.[/QUOTE]

Basic = classic? What dictionary are you using? I never said anything about classic, I never even used the word. I said basic, silva used a basic, low level sub, after getting beat up for 90% of the fight.

 

if you think an amateur could have pulled off that "basic" move, you are more delusional than i originally thought

 

What does basic mean to you? Do you think it means easy?

Everything is basic, it's a matter of doing it better than the opponent can defend. There are counters and recounters to every position, low level is meaningless, most submissions are "low level" techniques, done with a high level of skill.

 

Did I say an amateur could pull that off? Can you quote me on that? Oh wait! you can't cuz I never said it. Perhaps you can't grasp the difference between two different assertions.
1. "fighters only need basic Bjj and mid- high level bjj is useless In mma"

2. "amateurs could pull off a sub against sonnen."
I'll give you a clue, one of then I said and another one I didn't. Try arguing against a point I made, not one you made up in your head and attributed to me.

 

You could not have pulled that off with basic BJJ, just because you know how to perform a triangle / armbar, does not mean you know how to do it against Chael ****ing Sonnen.

If Silva was not as good at BJJ as he is, he would have not only not gotten the sub, he would have been finished on the ground.

 

among the others I mentioned nogueira, the diaz brothers anderson silva is a really dangerous off his back, mabe more dangerous than people give him credit for, he usually takes very little damage off his back uses the body triangle from the bottom(few others do this) and can submitt guys in an instant if they are not careful.

but of course standing up he is even worse!

 

Trying to change up what you said now? first you said basic = classic, now that you got called on that laughable mistake you're trying to backtrack. Here is what basic means to me, I suggest using the dictionary in the future and stop making up definitions of words.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/basic

Most importantly it does not mean classic.

Everything is basic? :rofl:rofl wow hilarious. That is one of the most ignorant things I've read in a long time. Everything is basic? is that why they teach EVERYTHING at the white belt level? :rofl
If low level is so meaningless then why do we RARELY see any high level bjj in mma? why do we see high level blackbelts getting roflstomped by people with basic bjj knowledge? matt hughes vs bj penn 2, bj penn vs frankie edgar 1 and 2, bock lesner vs frank mir 2 for examples.

 

You seem to be confusing how BJJ is used at a high level. Yes the fundamentals are taught first, but that is because they are the most important thing. The more complex subs and positions are used far less often; the best BJJ guy in the world right now, Roger Gracie, uses absolutely "basic" stuff, but he uses it at a higher level than anybody else in the world.

So yes, everything is basic, there is nothing inherently hard about pretty much any BJJ technique, it is all about the level of the opponent, if it is some bum off the street, it's easy, if it's Chael Sonnen, who has been beating the **** out of you for 4 1/2 rounds, it's pretty ****ing hard.

You see BJJ fighters losing because nobody is immune to losing. Matt Hughes may not have a formal BJJ belt, but he is one of the best submission grapplers in the division.

 

it's not a video game you idiot

fighters are people...some have off nights, some are past their primes, some just run into someone else who has their number...also, the bigger name guys have lots of tape out on them, thus their strengths and weaknesses can be studied

and some people are just better athletes

you mention hughes-peen 2....what about hughes penn 1? penn losing to edgar wasn't because his bjj failed him....it was because he thought he could out-speed a faster guy on his feet (and let's face it, penn has lost his fire)

lesnar - mir mir got manhandled plain and simple...technique only takes you so far...when you are outmatched athletically you will have problems

andspeaking of lesnar...how did he win his last fight? what kind of choke was that?


yes, bjj is not the end all be all of mma, but neither is wrestling...they are both useful, and depending on how one applies them is also important


anyway, continue your one man war against bjj with someone else

i have wasted enough time on you

 

Because you say so? wow, these are wonderful arguments you're putting forth, and yes, he did pull it off with basic bjj. Its a basic level submission, no matter how much you practice it, no matter how good you are, it is still only a basic level submission.

The guard position and what to do in the guard position is one of the first things you learn.