Robinson vs. Patterson

The problem with this matchup is that SRR began his campaign at 160 when he was already past his prime so there's no accurate way to forecast the outcome for me. Also, he admitted after his retirement that he had trouble carrying 160 and feeling comfortable in the ring.
On the flip side, Patterson's prime weight was 175, not 160 so he would have been pretty green for the likes of SRR at MW...even with Robinson's own issues at 160. Interesting matchup though... I'll tentatively go with SRR exploiting Patterson's inexperience and winning by mid round TKO.

 

well Patterson was better at middleweight then Robinson was.

 

bad fight for ray in every sense. age, style, weight are all against him.

 

Cus D'Amato declined Robinson's fight offer, claiming he did not want to assist Sugar Ray in attempted suicide. That it likely would have been at that point in Robinson's career. If it were an early 50's Robinson, against the Patterson who fought Maxim, Sugar Ray would have shown Patterson that he still had a lot to learn, although the speed of young Floyd would be troubling even for Robinson.

 

Hear it from the man himself:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i70vgJM0Qs[/ame]


1:00

 

Some things to consider here.

Floyd had unusual hand speed, described as a match for Ali's own. Henry Cooper said Patterson's hands were even faster than Ali's. This is significant, because Ali's hand speed tested as greater than Robinson's straight up. Walker was decimated by Schmeling's superior hand speed. Bob Foster certainly had no great advantage in this department either when stepping up against Frazier and Ali. If being the smaller man does not carry with it an automatic edge in speed, then he's likely to find himself in deep, deep trouble. (That makes Walker's performance against Sharkey all the more stunning, because he did not have a clear edge in speed, but may have actually been the harder puncher of the two. There's no chance though that SRR could match Patterson in power.)

After just nine fights, Floyd outscored Durelle, after only a dozen, 11 ringside sportswriters unanimously favored him over Maxim. His performance against Moore was stunning. Late in his career, a hook to the body sent Devil Green down for the count.

That gazelle hook of Patterson's was remarkably accurate, and Robby may well have been caught at the perfect range for Floyd to land it. Patterson also had a deadly short hook and cross. Ray had some success getting underneath Maxim before retreating. He's not getting underneath Floyd.

Robby would have had a huge edge in foot speed and experience. At this time, he was also smarter than Floyd, who did not really produce a masterpiece of ring generalship after Moore during his first reign. Would foot speed, experience and smarts be enough to overcome Floyd's physical advantages though?

Concerning the axiom, "Never hook with a hooker," it may be no given that Ray would have the advantage, and Patterson never took anybody lightly.

 

I think the way Jacobs supposedly tested Ali's speed as greater than Robinson's is rather flawed though. He basically compared Ali's jab to Robinson's and found Ali's faster, but then Robinson was never a jabber like Ali, but mostly used it as a rangefinder or to set up his fast combinations.

 

Patterson by early knockout. I would fear for SRR's life in this one. Archie Moore would have knocked out Robinson too. Just too big and powerful for Robinson.

 

Would the best Ray Robinson [158lbs] beat the best Floyd Patterson [175 lbs] ?
My answer is Patterson would win probably by stoppage...Too big for Robinson...
Floyd was as fast as any middlleweight Robinson fought, and at 175 would surely
hurt the much smaller and not prime [147] Robinson...
Now P4P is another story....

 

He did the best he could with the materials he had at his disposal, some admittedly flawed, but he did have the benefit of evaluating Robinson's speed through frame by frame projection film analysis. Today, what most fans who possess footage actually own is inferior videotape and transfers, not movie film, a difference you no doubt can appreciate.

That Cooper rated Patterson's hand speed as superior to Ali's is striking to me. (I sometimes wonder if 'Enery wasn't confusing hand speed with quickness though.) In the footage, we can see Cooper make Ali miss in both their fights (in fact his knockdown was the result of a jab duck and counter), while Floyd hardly misses him at all.

What do you consider to be SRR's most impressive use of a jab on extant footage? (For me, watching him stab down at a retreating Angott with it lingers in my mind.)

 

Difficult to say. He used little more than a jab to beat Fusari in a bout where he was told to carry his opponent the distance. He outjabbed Maxim at times, a great feat considering Maxim's prowess with the jab (he tagged Floyd Patterson often with it).

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B96LUj6R_pQ[/ame]


I think Cooper had difficulties with the aggressive approach of Patterson. When an infuriated Ali went at Cooper in the 5th round of their first fight, Cooper was getting hit at will.