let me ask you this question homeboy, did you think sonnen would dominate silva for 23 mins..............? I sure as **** didnt, oh wait silva had a serious rib injury in that fight didnt he. well it could have happened anyway, but we wont know till the rematch will we. I remember gsp getting beat to **** by a lightweight named matt serra, do you remember how much of an underdog matt serra was? point is mma is very unpredictable. on that subject silva has been pretty consistent winning that is, yep im gonna factor that in. I have to say I dont base my opinions on your opinions, I like to think for myself sorry homeboy. you dont care for statistics, I factor them in :think who would have thought two minds would come to separate conclusions with the same information. that is interesting one person must be wrong! That is the only answer for sure.:nono interesting thing is gsp hasnt fought a the caliber wrestler with a punch to boot like silva has. and gsp hasnt fought a bjj guy on the level of damien maia like silva has. you dont think fitch is as good as sonnen, I agree. I think fitch has better sub defense. but the sonnen that almost beat silva would probably give gsp problems as well. guess what, I wouldnt be surprised if dan henderson was able to beat gsp as well. if gsp went to the ground with damian maia I bet you gsp taps out in the first round:good also jermey horn and hayato sakuri are legends in mma he beat these guys before it was cool, he beat these guys in their primes. It may be unpopular but I think gsp's best wins over hughes was after hughes decline. talkin about decline, silva is 35 years old he said in an interview two years ago that he wanted to retire at 35. This content is protected perhaps he is in his decline? ever think of that machida lover? http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=7367&zoneid=4
Could it therefore mean that Anderson isnt getting matched up to fighter who has a good chance of beating him or that the UFC simply doesnt have the talent to beat Anerson? Maybe the UFC doesnt have the best talents in the business, maybe the only have the most popular fighters. Why did Anderson get beat up 4 times outside of the UFC, while he goes undefeated inside? This content is protected This content is protected Why not? all I see is a bunch of double standards.
Im not saying you are a dumb fuk and Im not saying you arnt.....But you have zero knowledge of MMA the fact you can leave fedor out of the top 3 let alone top 10 is ridiculous. How about expanding on why Fedor's achievements arnt 'valuable' for the current division......son.
"POUND" FOR "POUND" Most fighters in that list shed allot of weight (many pounds) to compete in a lower weight division than their normal body weight. They do this so that they are not out muscled, out weigh, out reached, outgunned and do not have to keep punching up. Fedor is the true definition of Pound for Pound. He is basically a small LHW who doesnt cut and who fights fighters with a longer reach advantage,are taller, sometimes more powerful and most times far heavier. Furthermore, Fedor if you compare him to fighters of different classes IS again the P4P, with the better achievements, better record, showcases better and a more well rounded skill set.
Dude just came off of a loss in the first 2 minutes and he fights at heavyweight, the weightclass most discriminated against in p4p discussions. I swear you Fedor apologists must think Muhamhed Ali is the current #1 Heavyweight boxer right? Who has Klitschko ever fought? Ali beat Liston twice, Foreman, and Frazier twice. What? That was a long as **** time ago? Oh...
Please dont compare an active fighter versus a retired fighter. The main difference between your example is that Fedor is still an active fighter and not retired like Ali. In boxing its more like this: Nikolay Valuev (50 wins and 2 losses) ranked 7 in boxrec lost to David Haye in his last fight. versus Jairo Kusunoki (6 wins, 5 losses and 1 draw) ranked 252 in boxrec won against Jong-Suk Lee in his last fight. Who is a better fighter? Any sane person would say that Valuev is a better fighter, your saying that his previous achievements is worthless simply because he lost his last fight.........therefore your saying that Kusunoki should be ranked above.
Well in another thread, you said that Fedor was P4p #1 because GSP & Anderson have never beaten Asian fighters.....atsch
1 - Anderson Silva 2 - GSP 3 -Fedor 4 - Shogun Rua 5 - Lyoto Machida 6 - Jose Aldo 7 - Jake Shields 8 - Frankie Edgar 9 - Randy Couture 10 - Brock Lesnar
Holding a strong opinion on something is not the same as not being objective. Is any strong conviction a failure to be objective?? Nope. I have a strong opinion that GSP is the pound-for-pound number 1 right now. Will I dilute that opinion because it annoys you? Nope again. I am thinking... that none of this has any great relevance to the current pound-for-pound rankings! atsch But I shall this explain this in more detail shortly... Silva and GSP have both been fighting in the UFC for years now!! How the hell does wins before they even came to the UFC have any relevance whatsoever to the current p4p rankings?! I don't think you understand how the p4p rankings work at all... The achievements you listed have great relevance to Silva's career greatness, to his all-time pound-for-pound standings, but they don't have relevance to the current pound-for-pound rankings. If we judged the current pound-for-pound rankings on what fighters did years ago in other divisions and for other organizations, then guys like Wanderlei Silva and Randy Couture might still be near the top. But they aren't. And the reason for that is that the only criteria which matters (and your main failing on this issue seems to be that you cannot grasp this point) is this: - who is fighting the best comp, beating the best comp, and looking better whilst beating the best comp. That is all. Statistics have only peripheral importance, sequences have only peripheral importance, past achievements have only peripheral importance to the current p4p rankings. If you think I have ever said that Silva's wins "count for nothing" next to GSP then you really are an imbecile, because I have never ever said or even implied anything of the sort. Silva is an amazing fighter, and has beaten some great fighters. However, the subject here is not Silva's career or Silva's resume. The subject here is the current pound-for-pound rankings of the here-and-now. And to be honest, GSP's resume in the UFC is stronger than Silva's anyway, since you bring it up: ATG Matt Hughes (x2) ATG BJ Penn (x2) Jon Fitch Josh Koscheck Matt Serra Frank Trigg Thiago Alves Karo Parisyan Dan Hardy Sean Sherk Jason Miller It is stronger. This is pretty much undeniable. atsch Seriously?! "Machida lover"?! ****ing hell, that is the weakest insult I've ever seen written on ESB in my life. Truly, truly pathetic. :-( I am a proud fan of Lyoto Machida, and always will be, much like I am also a proud fan of BJ Penn, the Nogueira brothers, Shogun Rua, and many more MMA fighters (including one Anderson Silva, who at his peak was one of the most spectacular fighters I've ever seen... but my personal affection for his striking and BJJ skills are of course not relevant to an objective p4p ranking discussion). From what you have said so far, your affection for Silva most definitely does impact upon your p4p choices. If they don't, then your criteria is bogus because the reasons you have provided for ranking him 1st are not how the real p4p rankings are decided at all. Yeah, I was wrong. I thought you based your p4p rankings on whose style you liked but I was wrong... you base it on past achievements from years and years ago, and sequences and statistics. None of which is relevant to the actual p4p rankings. None of that has anything to do with my strong opinion on this issue. I make my own decisions based on the criteria which I believe is the real/right one. It is not having a closed mind to hold one strong opinion. I hold a strong opinion, and I will put forward what I think. I have no interest in diluting it to seem more open-minded to satisfy you or anyone else. I disagree, and I have already explained why, so I won't go over old ground. I think GSP's recent comp has been tougher, and I think his performances have been more dominant and impressive. And I've never bashed Silva, nor would I ever. I think he is a thrilling, brilliant fighter, and I've never said otherwise. But I do not believe he is the p4p#1 right now, not at all. He doesn't need to. He has quality opponents on the horizon (Koscheck, Shields, a rematch with Fitch), and as long as he keeps utterly dominating men the same size as him (or bigger, as Alves was) then he retains the top spot IMO. When Matt Hughes was ruling the ww division and Chuck Liddell was ruling the lhw division, did you refuse to place them above any fighters who had fought in two divisions? If Shogun continues to lay waste to the lhw division, beating guys like Evans, Jon Jones, L'il Nog etc, will you refuse to rank him above Randy Couture, since Couture is still active and has had success in two UFC divisions? The weight point is not the be all and end all, far from it. As I have said numerous times, if your reasons for placing Silva above GSP are things that Silva done years and years ago, and the fact that he fought ****ing Irvin and Griffin at lhw, then I think your criteria blows goats!
Nope. The fact that Silva did get utterly dominated solidified my belief that since Fedor's loss, GSP is the rightful top dog. GSP would not get dominated and beaten up by a Sonnen-calibre fighter these days. He is too strong and well-rounded for that. Fitch is a better fighter than Sonnen, and GSP dominated Fitch. Even if Silva did have a serious rib injury (and I tend to agree and believe him), it doesn't matter to me because I ranked GSP higher than him in terms of the current p4p rankings before the Silva-Sonnen fight anyway. GSP has been taking on tougher comp and beating them more impressively/dominantly for some time now IMO. No, we won't. I hope Silva knocks him out cold with a flying knee in the rematch. I much prefer Silva to Sonnen as a fighter and a personality. I do. I also remember that happened over 3 years ago. And I also remember GSP absolutely dominating and destroying him in a rematch. If you hold GSP's defeat, which he avenged, from 3 years ago against him in a current p4p rankings debate, then how far back do you in looking at results? Can Shogun Rua be included, since he lost to Forrest Griffin 3 years ago, and hasn't avenged it? There has to be a time limit on how far back you go when deciding what is and is not relevant to the p4p rankings, and rematches/trilogy outcomes are also important when discussing defeats. The quality of his performances have been consistently declining over the past couple of years, for sure. In 2008, Silva finished the fight Dan Henderson in the 2nd round. In 2010, he got utterly dominated and beaten up by a man not fit to lace Hendo's boots, Chael Sonnen. Silva's performances against Maia, Leites and Cote (2008-2010) were nowhere near as impressive as he was in 2006-7, beating Franklin, Marquhart, Leben, etc, whereas GSP is more dominant and impressive now than he has ever been. By the p4p criteria, I believe quality of performance is more important than a long sequence of results. Yes, we have a difference in opinion, but the fact remains that my criteria is closer to those used for the real p4p rankings than yours are IMO. The pound-for-pound rankings are about the here-and-now, the top fighter on the planet at this very moment, and sequences/stats from years upon years ago are most definitely not as relevant/important as who is the more dominant and impressive fighter over the past couple of years. GSP has faced tougher comp in the UFC over the past couple of years. You mention Maia, I mention BJ Penn. You mention Sonnen, I mention Fitch. You can nitpick over styles, but GSP has faced the higher calibre opponents in the relevant time-period. Seriously?? How exactly is any of that relevant to anything at all?! Silva and Sonnen are middleweights. Henderson is a middleweight who used to fight at light-heavy and is now moving up there again. GSP is a welterweight. Who cares if all three could beat him?! That has no relevance to anything whatsoever. atsch I highly doubt that. Highly. I'd back GSP to beat Maia without any hesitation. Not that it has any relevance to this discussion, or any point anyway. Yes, but this has NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER to the current p4p rankings... don't you understand that???! atsch Randy Couture beat Vitor Belfort in 1997, does that mean Randy should be a p4p high flyer in 2010 because Belfort is close to a mw title shot?! No! I think Silva's win over Dan Henderson was after Henderson's decline. Still a great win though. atsch Erm, yes, I did think of that, I've thought that for a while now... that's kind of one of the main reasons I think he is not the current p4p#1.....?! I think Silva is declining, because of a decline in the quality of his performances, therefore I think someone who is not in decline and is producing the best performances of his life is a more fitting choice for the p4p#1 position. You think Silva is declining, but you think he deserves to be p4p#1 on that basis.....?? For the second time tonight, I say your criteria for p4p rankings blows goats!! PS: "Machida Lover" again? Absolutely dire, you feeble-minded creature.
I have to say it is mostly about results, but not necessarily official results. I think I did a pound for pound list a few months back without having watched all of Penn and Edgar I. I ranked Edgar above Penn there. I would not have done that had I watched the fight. I thought Penn won the first fight after watching it. I would have continued ranking Penn higher, because he was still a better fighter in my mind. Edgar dominated Penn in the rematch, so I don't have to worry about that now. Fedor was on top of my list until June of this year. I don't have in my top 10 because I don't feel I can justify putting his opponent in my top 10 yet. I think this has some of the Fedor baggers mad at me, but it doesn't change my mind. If Fedor were to avenge his loss to Werdum, he would instantly go to at least 3rd on my list. If Fedor were to defeat Overeem afterward, he would resume control. I don't even know how good Overeem really is, but there is still a bit of a question mark on how good mma's heavyweights are as a whole right now.
