jose "mantequilla" napoles

Napoles would get Mayweather's attention and hurt him en route to posting a decision win over 15.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

You're done for the night.

 

Not necessarily. There are thousands of fights where the fighter who was "first" didn't win, either because he didn't do enough damage or because he wasn't able to keep things at the right range where being "first" mattered, etc. It's especially irrelevant when considering a fighter whose entire style relies on slipping an opponent's leads and countering at a shorter range, i.e. Napoles.

In any case, being first has to do with many things other than speed.

Then explain to me how Monzon beat Valdez, how Pavlik beat Taylor, how Basilio beat Robinson etc.

:rofl

Right, yeah, he doesn't exemplify the technical aptitude of backing up in straight lines with your hands in the air, pulling back from punches, using a shoulder roll etc.

0:14, 0:39... - that's what you call slow?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33BKWkt89Y[/ame]

Like he did DLH's? Right.

At 147 there's little difference in terms of skillset. Cokes is the better technician and has more variety as well as being bigger and stronger.

Just like there's no way Ali would beat Tyson at mid-range. It's his ability to dictate the range and work there that produces the outcome.

That said, where Napoles does decide to work from range (e.g. in a jabbing contest) he does have the advantage.

 

atsch

Like whom?

 

Why is Mayweather still considered unhittable? After all the battles he was in? I don't get it.

 

This will be my last reply as your debating has resorted to posting childish smileys to make your points

1. Being first is vital, expecting to be able to take an opponents punch, limits you to a position of pressure fighter and assumes you dont have a problem taking their punches. Despite his lack of power no ones being able to walk through Mayweathers punches to date

2. Yes being first is to do with other things, I've listed, those attributes FMJ seems to outshine Napoles with, wake up and pay attention.

3. Only an idiot laughs when hes wrong, care to list the fighters that Judah hasn't/couldn't beat to the punch, he's 1 of the fastest ever

4. Ofcourse the faster man doesn't always win but those are poor examples. Taylor had the stamina of a grandad, Robinson was near shot, Valdez just wasn't that good or that quick anyway. If you want to list fighters who break faster fighters down stick to the Chavez/Frazier examples

5. while in a way thats a valid criticism, it works for FMJ and he's still more skilled than Napoles, which is why he constantly manages to put on clinics

6. At mid-range Napoles is quick, at long range yes his jab is nowhere near the speed of a Mayweather/Judah/DLH

7. Napoles jab isnt nowhere near as fast as DLH, neither is he as rangy and DLH didn't even land many jabs if you actually pay attention to whats happening in the fight and not the crowd noise

8. Mayweather's on a different level to Cokes, I've already explained why -speed, reactions, timing, reactions, defense

9. I'm not sure the reason for that comparison. But no way Napoles jab is landing, do you really think Napoles jab is fast enough to land and recoils quick enough not to throw the right over the top of it? No it doesn't but like I say if Napoles strategy is to to use his jab to make Mayweather back up to the rope, slip Mayweathers shots, get to mid range and throw combinations at shorter range which are hard to defend against then he's fighting to his strengths, in effect the Castillo strategy

 

There's walking through, but there's also blocking/slipping and countering, there's using footwork/head movement to avoid an outfight altogether and get into close-range fighting. "Being first" is just one small aspect of boxing, and being fast is just one small aspect of being first.

Boxing would be a very dull and predictable sport (almost like a convoluted athletics contest) if what you're saying held.

Like what? Judgement of distance, timing, footwork etc.? You're probably the only one who thinks Mayweather has an advantage there.

Again, you crudely reduce beating somebody to the punch to being fast. (The reason I laughed was because Judah is not exactly somebody who spends his time on the front foot "being first".)

"Wasn't that good" - "Taylor lacked stamina" - exactly my point. There are multifarious reasons for a fighter out-timing another. Accuracy, footwork/ability to get into position to throw, output/work-rate/stamina - all those things count as well as speed.

Go and look down any amateur gym and there will be kids in there as fast or even faster than the top guys in the sport. There's a reason why they're not titleists.

Those are fine examples, especially Chavez, who routinely "was first" against faster (as well as taller, rangier etc.) opponents. There are many others.

So you concede that Mayweather isn't the better technician now?

And Mayweather is not more skilled in any aspect of his game. Like I said, a flat-footed pot-shot-and-grab artist at the weight.

You think the jabs at say 3:10 here are faster than the ones earlier?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55czSCHTQfU[/ame]

Aside from that, Napoles is a much more skilled jabber than DLH in other respects, being able to counter with the jab, anticipate an opponent's jab and land his own while leaning away for protection, throw it from a variety of angles rather than just "pointing" it out in a straight line repetitively, having better footwork and extension on the jab which increases his range, etc. And, like I said, that's one tiny fragment of Napoles' game, used more to probe for weaknesses, invite an exchange or counters etc. than as a basis for his style (unlike DLH, who was able to make the whole fight competitive just with his against Floyd).

"Reactions, reactions" - Cokes was hardly a sluggard himself, and was able to get in a counter right near enough as quickly as I've ever seen Mayweather do at 6:37, 8:07, 8:42, for example.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu2L0NxRfHA[/ame]

As for defence - Cokes was far and away the better defensive technician, if that means anything. Apart from that, the footage isn't exactly conclusive. If there is an advantage for Mayweather, I'd speculate that what Cokes may lack in evasiveness he gains on offence.
Again, a safety-first style often misleads.

Absolutely. One of Napoles' biggest strengths. Take the video I posted earlier. At 0:51, 1:01 and 1:23 (particularly), 1:33. Napoles avoids deadly quick straight right hand counters or leads over the jab or over any combination with unbelievable ease. It played into his style - trying to counter his jab just provided an opportunity for him to counter the counter in turn and work his combinations. In fact, he does this throughout the fight, until Cokes, like pretty much every opponent, abandons all hope of actually landing anything on the counter around the half-way. The same would happen to Mayweather, I suspect.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33BKWkt89Y[/ame]

Well, that is his style.

Not really - Castillo's strategy was hardly a clinic on smooth boxing finesse, but basically an attempt at smothering and mugging Mayweather up close.

 

The timings I gave for the videos may be a bit off as YouTube's numbers are playing up... search around the time and it'll be there somewhere.

 

Actually Napoles adopts a very effective swarming style for a few of the latter rounds of the Lewis fight IIRC (or was it the Clyde Gray fight?). I'll have to get some more uploads going at some point. Then I'll also have a few more examples of him avoiding Cokes' counter right to hand

 

He dose the same move over and over. Half step back, rock than step in. He also dose not change up the speed of the move. In other words his movement can be predicted.

 

One of the most eye pleasing styles ever.

 

Profound.

 

x2. He'd also beat JMM@135 based on what I've seen of him at the weight (and assuming he didn't just learn how to box when he moved to 147 ) he was a beast at Lightweight.