1952 Rocky Marciano vs 1960 Cleveland Williams

I think Rocky flattens him within four ... I can't pick a fighter who is far more know for losses than victories over Marciano if he has a shaky chin ... Williams would be far and away the most dangerous fighter Rocky ever fought .. no comparisons with old , SLOW Joe Louis ... however, I see him moving in after stunning Rocky fast and getting hit in return and then it's a different fight ..

 

Johnny Shkor was a clubfighter on his last legs, and he still gave Marciano a fairly tough fight. Williams was a legitimate top contender, who was absolutely shot to bits by the time he faced Ali, a fight that shouldn't even be mentioned when it comes to a prime vs prime match-up.

No whitewash, but one has to favour Marciano by KO here. Remember though the beating Williams gave to against a slower than usually starting Liston in the first round. If Marciano doesn't come out fast and prepared, as he sometimes tended not to, he might visit the canvas for a while.

 

In the Top1....

 

It lasted 6 rounds though and Marciano was badly cut.

He retired afterwards, although he did fight once 4 years later.

A year before. In between he had been KO'd in one by Walcott.

Shkor was a clubfighter and a washed up one at that, I don't see why choklab constantly tries to make the win out to be more than what it was. If anything, it could indicate that Marciano has trouble with bigger men as he supposedly had problems with Shkor's strength for the first couple of rounds.

 

big cat may have been shot to bits when he fought ali but his record proves he was only a serious contender after the liston fights 1961-64 from the time he beat meiteff on cuts, terrel by tko and drew with machan the only name fighters the cat had any measure of succes against. either side of this period wiliams may of had a punchers chance against a contender but was in no way shape or form title material. you could say neither ali or liston got wiliams at his peak since wiliams had been wiped out by satterfeild and hurt bad by sylvester jones on the marciano- lastarza undercard prior to the liston thrashing.

wilaims was brave and had a punchers chance early on but he did not hurt evryone. wiliams could not hurt 185 frankie daniels who had been KOd 6 times before or billy daniels who went the distance twice during the cats 1961-64 peak. keene simmons who fought both marciano and wiliams said their was absolutly no comparison, marcinao hit a lot harder.

 

What's this supposed to mean? Are you again trying to claim that a win over a fighter is worthless if they have been KO'd in the past (even if only 20 years old like Williams when he fought these fights)? In that case Marciano's wins over Walcott, Charles and Moore are worthless.

I don't know where he said that but Simmons, who was a horrible fighter, fought a 18 year old Cleveland Williams and put up a decent effort against Marciano, some reports even claiming that Marciano had been stunned by Simmons.

Marciano did not hurt everyone either, including light heavyweight sized Ted Lowry. It's still clear that both men hit very hard.

 

shkor was knocked out by walcott and marciano. wilaims was knocked out by both the linear champs (ali and liston) he also faced that was the comparison i was making.

shkor was a draw in boston and held his own against a lot of great fighters. bivins, baksi etc he had a great win over tami mauriello akin to wiliams's one big win over terrel.

shkor was a big man to chop down for a physical presure fighter like marcinao who was still a work in progress but still proved he could handle a man the size of bonecrusher smith.

 

He was also KO'd by Sid Peaks and Buddy Walker and had a record of 31 wins, 19 losses. Mauriello was finished as a top level fighter at the time he fought Shkor.

The guy is not really worth a mention even next to Cleveland Williams, who wasn't an all-time great by any means, but levels above a Johnny Shkor.

 

Good Lord, I can't believe the level to which normally astute followers of the sport get cum-drunk over Williams. He had 1 KO over a legit elite heavyweight in his entire career. Some folks are so gleeful to find a single heavyweight from his era who actually passes for a normal sized heavyweight in the post-modern era (thus supposedly validating their inane arguments of how Bob Satterfield would pulverize Lennox Lewis) that they go overboard and make the guy out to be some kind of monster. Please. Outside of the one Terrell KO, most of his stoppages were against b-raters and no-hopers.

Marciano KO6.

 

yes, when marciano beat walcott, charles and moore each had been KO'd before. charles had been KO'd only once since the end of the war, absolutly no disgrace at all since the guy who did it was a great fighter (walcott) who he beat twice and almost beat in their last fight. walcott had not been knocked out since the great joe louis did it, he was knocking out contenders, his resume was great at the time he faced rocky and you will agree moore was in the form of his life knocking out bob baker etc..

simmons said that in a magazine i have had for over 20 years, I can quote it to you tommorow if you would like.

by all acounts ted lowry was a defensive wizard who gave marciano and many many others a tough workout which was basicly his job, I think only rusty payne knocked tiger ted out but again this was not peak marciano.

 

And Cleveland Williams was knocked out by a brutal puncher in Bob Satterfield at 20 years of age as a late substitute. This somehow disqualifies him as a credible win for Liston.

It's not that I don't believe the quote, it's that I do not think it's all that relevant coming from Keene Simmons. Williams's early setbacks are brought up again and again in an effort to discredit him as a fighter, when he was just 18-20 years old. Where was Marciano at that age? He didn't even box. Walcott was beaten by everybody in his early years.

Marciano also went the distance with Willis Applegate only months before knocking out Rex Layne. You can't knock out everyone, especially when you can't hit them right, but Marciano KO'd 43 of his opponents, Williams 58. Both could hit.

 

Sounds like most punchers that the sport has ever seen. Not everyone was exactly keen on climbing in the ring with Williams either, and he was shot at a critical point in his career when about to have a third match with Terrell for the WBA title (Williams had beaten Terrell and lost a disputed split decision).

Now we shall go back to hyping Corrie Sanders who unlike Williams never beat a single top 10 ranked contender outside of the one win he had over Wladimir Klitschko.

 

it was just a year after his title fight. maureillo was on another run of wins since that loss to louis for the title, prior to that mauriello had a 12 fight knockout streak i dont think mauriello was finished when shkor recorded that win.

 

He didn't accomplish a thing after losing to Louis. Shkor's overall career shows that he was little more than an "opponent" for the top heavyweights and it's not like he only lost to top heavyweights either, he lost to complete novices and journeymen.