Very good or great? Volume 2: Ernesto Marcel

I certainly don't see the likes of Trevor Berbick, Ray Mercer and Bonecrusher Smith being anything special skill-wise.

 

I think on film Marcel looks a lot better than Holmes though.

 

It's difficult to directly compare a 210 lb man to a 126 lb man. By heavyweight standards, Holmes is one of the best technicians. In the lighter divisions, you will find many that are better.

I believe Mike Tyson once said that he sometimes wished he were a smaller guy, so he could fight faster and more skilled. For a heavyweight, simply being able to take it and hit hard counts for a lot, which is why the likes of Ray Mercer and Bonecrusher Smith are listed as notable wins for Larry Holmes.

 

I get you, but I am saying in comparable skill or ability levels for their weight classes. I think marcel is the more effective fighter.

 

He may very well have been.

Rather than comparing Marcel to Holmes, I feel we should compare him to Eder Jofre for example. Does Jofre have an extensive list of impressive wins? Not necessarily, though he beat a solid bunch. I doubt there's anyone here who wouldn't call him great.

I still feel that Marcel is borderline between very good and great, mainly due to his early retirement from the sport, but the case can be made.

 

Jofre does make up for his lack of great opponents though by his great longevity and amazing comeback at Featherweight. Marcel cannot even list longevity as one of his strong points, but for what his resume is (in terms of depth) it is stacked.

 

That's why I would hesitate to call him great, but it all comes down to what your definition of greatness is, personally. I feel it should be reserved to a select few (though I ironically have the word in my nickname) but at times I tend to think that the more under-appreciated fighters deserve to be called great as well, even if they did not have a great "impact" on the sport or popularity among fans.

 

I tend to be rather liberal in my approach to naming a fighter Great. I think there is many fighters deserving of a Great tag.

 

Yeah these would be the ten I'd choose. Maybe Jose Smecca could fit in too.

I'm also sceptical that Leonel Hernandez actually beat Marcel. Hernandez was another Venezuelan that wasn't beyond the old home cookery.

There's no doubting Holmes has more depth, but as you say G, the quality front is probably titled in Marcel's favour if you just consider the top handful of guys beat.

Jofre has quite a bit of longevity that probably sets him apart from Marcel. Also has more quantity to his resume (more than Larry Holmes imo).

As far as head to head abilities though, I think they are fairly equal.

 

Interesting. I was just thinking it looks like a brilliant win for Arguello. Will need to dig around it for a bit.

Definitely, for a guy who retired at, what, 23 or 24, he has probably the most stacked resume you could expect. It is maybe just as good as Salvador Sanchez's, well I think Shibata is better than anyone Sanchez faced.

Jofre actually has a very complete resume IMO. Not much you can fault with it.

Agreed.

 

All I could find on Google News about the Hernandez bout, but what a cracking photo.

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers...1977&dq=leonel+hernandez+ernesto+marcel&hl=en

 

As you go up in weight its harder to maintain workrate, bounce on your feet, move your head etc. Sometimes as you get stronger its harder to maintain technique as any muscular imbalances in the body become more imbalanced, such as the upper body overpowering the core. In essence its harder to be a technician the harder you go up in weight.

 

For starters he wasn't happy with the amount of money he was making. Secondly he no longer had the intensity and desire to slave away getting into top shape as his heart wasn't quite 100% in it.

 

Marcel Vs Sal Sanchez anyone? :hey