The heavyweight division in a few years

In your opinion which were joe louis big wins.?

Wlad dominates guys in the ring, sometimes like children. So why is thios excl;usive just for joe even though you stated it as a trait for being an ATG.

Like it or not, i dont even like wlad but he got my respect and i want let my biased view cloud my judgement, he is top 20 ATG heavy now, four more years dominatin and he will be top ten.:deal. bearing in mind he fights 3 fights a year, that is 12 fights.

 

See my last post re. dominance.

Also, I already said this, but your 'prime' is when you are at your best, not when your opposition are at their worst. It's not hard to look good against such bad challengers.

 

On this basis johnny nelson should be an atg cruiserweight having dominated the division for 9 years

 

Didn't Wlad dominate using punches? I mean, if you look at punch stats, he pretty much landed power shot after power shot into his opponents faces to the point that they quit, or were ready for the taking. Or am I wrong again and that all his punches were pitter patter that simply didn't do anything and did as much damage as Paulie Malignaggi's punches?

Is there a difference if the KO is in the 10th round, or the 5th? Would it make any less dominant if he absolutely pepper the opponent with punches and shots and the opponent is absolutely powerless to stop it, or if he just KO him out in two rounds? Is there any difference if he chose to punish his opponent and make them suffer before KOing them rather than quickly taking them out?

 

Just as a point of reference... Tyson didn't really beat anyone of note to gain his ATG status, but the fact is he was so far above his contemporaries in talent and level it was undeniable that he was made of greater(ATG) stuff.
Don't bring Haye into this, it's not that I don't think his accomplishment is impressive, but the CW division is so shallow he could have probably gotten a title fight sooner if he wanted it. Right now you could make your way up the HW ladder in 20-25 fights (Povetkin did it in 15), back when Wlad did it it was a little deeper.

 

You do know Joe Louis beat Schmelling right? Ever heard of Billy Conn? Both those fights have been called the fight of the century many times. Joe definitely beat a whole load of nobodies, but don't pretend he's comparable to Wlad. I didn't have to think for 2 seconds to come up with 2 big louis fights and I'm sure there's more to find if you wanna search for them. Wlad doesn't have a single big win on his record. That may not matter to you but it does to me.

 

My point was, when the division was deeper Wlad didn't make it to the top. As the division got worse, he got more 'dominant'.

 

Again, you have a viewpoint I just don't share on what dominance is in the ring. Wlad's stats against bum fighters are not gonna make up for his timid and scared fighting style in my mind. These guys should get blown away fast. If Wlad has ATG skills he should be able to use them to win fights in style like Tyson and Louis did against bums. Being long, leaning, clinching and pawing until your opponents gas do not go down in my book as ATG skills. This is just my opinion and I respect yours as much mine.

 

atsch it was six years dummy, the difference is, johny nelson beat them but he never dominated.

Wlad dominates on scorecards. i.e winning 9 out of 12 roiunds or KO them.

And also Wlad is facing the best available, former champs and mandoories johny never did that.

 

Max smeiling was a certified bum homie, the only reason he is relevaqnt was because he represented germany during the war and they marketed it as good vs evil and it had significant meaning my friend, not because he was a ATG. far from it.

Billy conn was also a bum, a blown up fat light heavyweight with 15 ko out of 60 plus fights and no skill. he looked like a damn barrel of guiness.

Please he was not great at all, bareluy good yet louis foin a reason to face and beat on his ass twice.

Like i said in a previous post, please tell me a GREAT fighter that louis beat.

 

watch out for a 24 year old cuban called mike perez 11-0(9 ko's). hes boxing out of ireland and looks the real deal. i think hell break into the top ten in the next year. this guy can go all the way.

 

Your point is that while Wlad was making his way up the division fell apart. Wlad is not responsible for the careers of other Boxers.

Yes, it took Wlad 10 more fights but in 2 less years to pick up a belt then Haye. Yes, he had a loss in his 25th professional fight that set him back a bit. So it took Wlad, in a solid division, 36 fights in 4 years to pick up a belt - took Haye 26 fights in 5(FIVE!) years in a **** weak CW division (Holyfield did it in only 3 years and 15 fights). Tyson had a belt in 26 fights but only needed 2 years. Took Lewis 22 fights to pick up a belt, still took him the same 4 years it took Wlad.

Seriously, what are you getting at? :huh

 

He must be talking about Braddock or Carnera.

 

Must have, no way back now he has boycotted the thread.

 

Well I guess we have to disagree. Other ATGs also clinch their opponents. I need not tell you their names because I'm sure you know of them. And he is tall and has great reach advantages. He would be an idiot not to utilize it to his advantage. Yet he beat opponents who were of the same height and reach and weight as him where he doesn't have any reach and height advantage at all.

Well, in my opinion, Wlad's got more than leaning and clinching. His jab is an ATG jab, and he can win fights using only it. In fact, I believe that it should be counted as a power shot because it is absolutely devastating. He has KO power in both hands, and he can put away his opponents in two rounds if he chose too. If he simply wants to play around with his outmatched opponents for six rounds and seven or eight rounds before delivering the coup de grace in the late rounds, let him. In fact beat an opponent using only one hand without throwing the other.

Is he an ATG? No.
Can he reach it? Yes.
Will he? Only time can tell.

You might scoff at this, but five years ago, people would have laughed at the prospect of Wlad becoming the next man at heavyweight. I was one of them. He was even an underdog for the first Peter fight.

Now trace the opinion of people about Wlad as years gone by. In 2004, he was written off. In 2005, he was expected to again lose and be out of the heavyweight picture, even after the Peter victory. In 2006, he was expected to not last long as the top heavyweight, even as they acknowledge him as number one heavyweight. In 2007, he was considered one of the worst HWs champions in history. In 2008, he was considered the best and almost unbeatable at heavyweight, and a good champion but would be laughed at if considered a P4P fighter in the sport. In 2009, he was considered by most (but not all) as the lineal champ, and one of the very best, but still out of the top 10 P4P and about top 50 in most people's ATG lists. In 2010, he was considered by most as a great champion who is unfortunate to have no one to test him. He is now conceded to be a top ten pound for pound boxer, and is seriously being put on lists of top 20 or top 15 ATG HWs.

What changed? Was it one single fight? No. People dissing him a few years ago are now heaping praise on him, or at least begrudginly acknowledging him.

Look at ESB. Many posters who three years ago, two years ago, spew forth venom at Wlad, always belittling him, etc. now how a change of heart. They now at least believe him to be a very good fighter who has a potential to be great. Read their posts in 2007, 2008, and compare it with those of 2010. In 2008, many were even laughing at the notion that Wlad would remain champ until 2011.

What changed?

Well, you'll have to figure that one out.

Would all doubters ever change their opinion on Wlad?

No.

But enough will, and eventually, if he remains on top for the next five or six years, beat every top contender, unify, etc., there would be a consensus that he is an ATG.

Not all would be convinced of course, but their voice would be a lonely one.