Your top 5 best HW of all time

Comparing them by their effectiveness and accomplishments in their eras.

Ali
Louis
Johnson
Dempsey
Holmes/Holyfield

 

1) Muhammad Ali 2) Joe Louis 3) Larry Holmes 4) George Foreman 5) Joe Frazier. Honourary mention to Sonny Liston.

 

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Johnson
Marciano

 

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Marciano
4. Tyson
5. Lewis

Swap four and five if you want. Marciano deserves to be number three, I'm beginning to think Rocky is the most under rated champion in history.

Holmes didn't fight the best and struggled mightily when he actually did.

 

Well...Lewis struggled mightily against Ollie McCall and Rahman in a sense...of being knocked out...And Tyson had Douglas. Both of these guys way before Holmes took his first actual loss. And McCall and Douglas weren't exactly the best out there. I couldn't see rating either over Holmes on my list.

 

Holmes didn't fight Dokes, Page, Thomas, Coatzee. And he didn't rematch Witherspoon or Weaver. I weigh fighting and beating the best a hell of a lot more than beating the Scott Franks of the world. McCall, Rahman, and Douglas were better even going into their respective fights with Lewis and Tyson than the the majority of Holmes "title challengers."

Take a look at the Ring Ratings for the years Holmes was the king and look at who Larry was fighting. Holmes gets enormous credit for his title reign where I think it can easily be seen (and perhaps should be seen) as the opposite.

I also rank both of them over Holmes head to head (subjective of course but what isn't)

 

In all fairness to Holmes - Dokes,Weaver,Page,Witherspoon,Thomas etc were all guys who passed the various titles around like pass the parcel. When one of them looked like the legitimate successor to Holmes' title,he'd lose to someone else. If one of them had beaten everyone else,and was avoided by Holmes,then we could say that Larry's status in history was challenged. So,all in all,I don't consider that Holmes' legacy is affected by this factor. Shame,because if Greg Page,to name one,had fulfilled his potential,he and Larry would have had a great fight.

 

That would be my view. Although, yes, it would've been satisfying to see him get to the guys first and not let the titles even get passed around like that.

 

Muhammad Ali, John L Sullivan, Joe Louis, James Jeffries, Rocky Marciano.

Jeffries or Marciano possibly replacable by Jack Dempsey or Jack Johnson.


Based mostly on how I think fighters would do if they came along at the same time, developing in analogy to how they developed in their own eras.

 

H2H :

1. George Foreman - his legacy is hindered by Ali's team's brilliant crime.
2. Vitali Klitschko - the man who was already proven as the better Klitschko
by avenging his brother's losses,
was stopped due to cuts and shoulder dislocation , denied of a rematch
against Lewis and was never KOd , KDd more than one time in a fight or
battered to submission as a pro , as opposed to Lewis , Foreman , Louis
and his brother.
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Oliver McCall - look at the game stoppage wise and see why.
5. Lennox Lewis

were close to make it too : Mike Tyson.

I may edit this post later , something came up at the TV , not that I looked for it.

Resume :
1. Evander Holyfield
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Muhammad Ali
4. George Foreman
5. Joe Louis

This list was all too close to call the first is close to the fifth and these are to consider in this aspect too :
Sam Langford , Oliver McCall , Mike Tyson , Joe Frazier , Rocky Marciano , Max Baer , Max Schmelling , James Smith , Larry Holmes.

 

Look at the game the way it is and McCall doesn't make top 50.

 

1. Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali
2. Joseph Louis Barrow
3. Larry Holmes
4. Rocky Marciano
5. George Foreman

 

1. ROCKY MARCIANO 49-0 (43) Never failed to hurt anyone he hit, if anyone deserves to be remembered as the best ever Marciano comes closest for me - nobody could beat him in reality - so for that reason alone I would always favour him in the fantasy arena too You can't deny someone who has always proved to come out on top no matter the competition - history has shown us its practically impossible to reach that 49-0 mark whether fighting tomato cans or not, somebody will always catch you at some point. The law of averages says you will slip up at some point (usually when you aren't expecting it) but that didn't apply with Marciano. He always found a way to win - more than that I can't actually picture him losing, can't actually picture it? Let alone how he would react to it?Or how he would come back from it? We never saw him hit the downslide - never saw him at anything less than his peak, didn't hang around until he was a shadow of himself. He also maintained his peak period from probably the Rex Layne fight of July '51 up to his retirement in '56 - in the region of 4 and a half/5 years - I think of all the other champs maybe only Louis maintained his REAL prime for a longer period - its getting on for 55 years since The Rock's last fight and since then only maybe two or three champs have even made it to even 40 fights unbeaten. Anybody hit with the Walcott I suzieQ is gone IMO too.

2. JACK DEMPSEY
3. JOE LOUIS
4. MUHAMMAD ALI
5. JACK JOHNSON