Does anderson frequently do any high level bjj moves in his matches? NO Does shogun frequently do any high level bjj moves in his matches? NO does GSP frequently do any high level bjj moves in his matches? NO Do you see a pattern here? You, like everyone else that can't argue for anything around here, think that just because someone has a black belt it means they're using tons of high level moves, when in fact, they just have a black belt and are using tons and tons of basic things. Setting up basic submission = EXPERIENCE. Do they use ADVANCE MOVES to set up basic submissions? NO, the just have experience and know what to do. You're confusing experience with high level moves. Try again. And guess what gets you to the destination, EXPERIENCE. What advance moves did Silva do to submit chonnen with the basic submission? NONE, no advanced moves. Anderson knew how to apply the submission really fast because of experience, not because he applied some high level move prior to applying the trianlge. Again, knowing how to get yourself into the position to use it = EXPERIENCE, not moves. Try again, you've failed like everyone else.
No, Wlad is an experienced boxer that is really good at the basics (not to mentino hes just bigger and taller than everyone else). You can't seem to differentiate between the someone being really good at the basics through experience and using high level moves. James toney uses high level moves with his mongoose style, head movement and countering. Wlad uses basics. Both fighters are experienced. There are roy jones jr's, james toneys, and floyd mayweathers of boxing. They use high level advanced techniques and are really good, they use them ALL THE TIME and they win, their entire fighting styles are based on ADVANCED TECHNIQUES. Now, wehre are they roy jones jr's, james toneys, and floyed mayweatehrs of bjj? where are these people that base their entire styles off of HIGH LEVEL BJJ? THERE AREN"T ANY, because its USELESS :rofl
Purple belt is the beginning of mid level bjj, try again, and you pointing to lesnar mir 2 shows you ahve no idea what you're talking about when it comes to this argument and my position. I suggest actually reading up on my position before commenting on it, because you have no clue about it if you think lesnar mir 2 makes my argument void because it wasn't a bjj match (that's the entire point!!!! :rofl)
Ad hominems, try again. Name calling won't prove your point, nor does it invalidate mine. No, it proves that high level bjj is practically useless in the MMA, not that bjj is ineffective. Do you know the difference between BJJ as a whole and HIGH LEVEL BJJ? apparently not. You can't even coherently address my argument because you have absolutely NO CLUE what my position is. Try going against an argument I actually made, not one you incorrectly think I made due to your poor comprehesion abilities.. WHat did penn submit him with? a REAR NAKED CHOKE! a completley basic submission that everybody learns when their like 10 years old. People that aren't even IN BJJ KNOW WHAT A REAR NAKED CHOKE IS!! Thanks for proving my point and also showing you have no clue what it is you're arguign against :rofl:rofl:rofl
Nope, because other boxers are successful using advanced techniques in boxing, people base their entire fighting styles around advanced technqieus and they use these advanced technquies FREQUENTLY and they work FREQUENTLY. Now....who in ufc is successful, that bases their entire fighting styles around ADVANCED BJJ TECHNIQUES and ACTUALLY USES THEM FREQUENTLY? NOBODY. You fail again Yaca.
dude your talking absolute ****.. the fact is without the gi theres only about 12 or so submissions to choose from. everything else is just variation and just because a move isnt flashy doesnt mean its "basic"
No, you try again. Have you rolled with a purple belt? It can take many, many years, in which fighters in other ranked martial arts would have become blackbelts to become a purple belt in BJJ, many purple belts are VERY dangerous. A purple belt BJJ player has a wealth of knowledge, skill and mat time, in fact it is not totally surprising when a purple taps out a brown or black. As for your argument about basic BJJ and experiance, how do you figure someone with a great deal of experiance would only have basic BJJ?? How does that make sense? You have no idea what you are talking about, just because you throw up triangles in your backyard with your buddies and tap them out, you think that you know all the subtle details that make such a technique work on someone who is versed in grappling? That's just one example but the same can be said for every so-called "basic" technique. So experiance = tightening of techniques= ADVANCE BJJ Now go to a BJJ class dude!
:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl Really? 12 submissions? can you provide a source or are you just making up numbers? show me evidence for your assertion that there are only 12 or so submissions please. Furthermore, I haven't even said flasy = advance, try again.
Iv'e rolled with purple belts, brown belts and black belts. TRY AGAIN. Furthermore I don't think you are very knowledgable in what a purple belt is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Jiu-Jitsu_ranking_system Purple belt is INTERMEDIATE SKILL LEVEL. Do you know what the word intermediate means? Just in case you don't here's the dictionary. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intermediate 2. (of a class, course, etc) suitable for learners with some degree of skill or competence Some degree of skill or competence. SOME, key word, SOME. Someone needs to brush up on their reading comprehension. I never said someone with a great deal of experience would only have basic bjj. Can you quote me? can you find a quote where I said that? no you can't, so you've been caught not even reading or comprehending what I said :rofl Then you falsely accuse me of "throwing up traingels in my backyard with my buddies and tap them out" even though I train in a gym, so you're wrong there as well, not to mention everything you said in this paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with the argument I was making :rofl You apparently can't tell the difference between high level bjj moves and simply being experienced and only using basic bjj. Please sit down in the failure club with yaca. I'm in BJJ class, which is why I am rolling with brownbelts, white belts, purple belts, brown belts and black belts. Try again, looks like you failed like everyone else around here.
Pretty much every martial art is predominantly created to combat its own martial art. Sure they can combat other martial arts but training, sparring and competition is done against people doing the same martial art. When martial arts are mixed, alot of them have to lose frills and certain skills. MMA goes with the most effective skills of each martial art. For example in boxing you can flick a jab, it's fast and it will score. In MMA if you flick a jab, it won't keep your opponent honest and could just leave you suspect to a take down. If you are going to hit someone, there has to be some meat on the shot. The same is true for BJJ, its hard to pull off a gogoplata if someone is going to punch you in your face. That doesn't mean these skills don't work BUT they are most effective within their own martial art. Every martial art has to discard some skills and add some skills i.e. a wrestler will add moving his head to his movement so that he can get in on a boxer. In MMA, he can't stand square on, right leg forward with his elbows tucked in. BJJ has adapted to MMA but that isn't to say some skills aren't used, they simply can't be employed as much.
:rofl... YOU don't even understand your argument. That's why you can't even keep your own logic straight...:rofl How does a high-level bjj fighter losing prove that all you need is basic-level bjj? It doesn't. In fact, the ONLY way that makes sense is if you're saying that the Gracies/Mir somehow forgot how to use the basics and would've done better had they remembered. Think BEFORE you post. Again, proving you can't even follow your own logic. If basic-level bjj is all you need, then why have Stevenson's (and other black belts) submission losses only been to black belts? If your logic held true (high-level bjj is useless in MMA/basic-level is all you need), then BBs (like Stevenson) would have submission losses to non & low belt holders as well as high belt holders. Whatever basic skills the BB have should also be shared by non & low level holders. And finally, it's hilarious that you bring up Mayweather & Toney using high level 'moves' in boxing when they are the slimmest minority, but ignore guys like Palhares & Aoki using high level moves in MMA b/c they are just exceptions...:blood...:rofl And considering how many more boxers there are than bjj bbs, if you accepted Palhares & Aoki, that would **** on your entire argument...:deal
omoplata, gogoplata, armbar, front chokes, rear chokes, ankle locks, toeholds, americana,triangle, kimura, kneebar, spine locks.... hhmmm, yeah pretty close to twelve... almost any legal mma submission is only going to be a variation of the above... you should quit now mate because its becoming clear even you dont know what your trying to say at this point... :roll:
What is an "advanced" submission in your eyes? I still haven't seen you really be clear with what you mean; I'm pretty sure your either a decent troll or just incredibly weird. I mean really, you don't need to be a high level BJJ artist to pull of "high level" subs; Brad Imes has multiple gogoplata submission wins. The " high level" or "advanced" tag describes how well something is done, not how unusual it is. I mean I think it's pretty self-evident that you need to be a better grappler to out grapple somebody.
