How Can A War "Ruin" A Fighter?

Depends. I mean by the time they did RM vs Vasquez 4, it wasnt mental it was physical. It was sad to see, his face couldnt take it anymore there was too much scar tissue.

 

oh yes, good point. vasquez face looked so fragile.

 

a motorcycle racer who crashes, a baseball batter who is beaned by a pitcher, a yank footballer who takes a terrible hit, a skier who takes a bad tumble...

many times these events result in spent athletes... mental, physical, metaphysical... who knows?

 

The brain and body were never meant to take such brutal beatings we have witnessed in boxing history.

In a classic ring war, you do leave a bit of your soul in there. Some part of you dies.

 

Great thread, and great answers.

I'm going to touch on something, a meantal point.

The aura of invincibility.

Some guys just get to the point where they, and often the public, just don't think they can or are going to be beaten at a certain time. When they do lose, their psyche is shattered they often never fully recover. Obviously this is a very narrow and select group of fighters.


Compounding this - opponents no longer see them as quite the unstoppable force either.

I am going to nominate George Foreman. After losing to Ali all of a sudden he's getting dropped 300 times against Ron Lyle. A year later he's going a bit against his natural style (trying to diversify supposedly) and losing to the tricky Young.

IMO he was never the same fighter post Ali regardless of what he did.

I almost included Don Curry but he did a lot of physical damage as well staying at 147 when he should have jumped, and copped a hammering to boot.

 

great point john,

im sure a vulnerable loss in the last outing of a great fighter can boost the confidence of his opposition.


i remember glenn johnson saying in a interview when he watched tarver blast out jones in the second round "if i could just face that version of roy jones, i could beat him". something may have lit up in glenn johnson and the very next fight johnson did it in 8 rounds.

 

could be brain damage...you use the Taylor example..he clearly started slurring his words within a few fights after the Chavez fight (though it wasnt right after as many think) still even though the effects did not show right away..i suspect much of the damage was done in that fight..same thing with Bowe after Golota...Bowe runned himself...but the war with golota finished the job.

 

and really as far as "how can 30 mintues of fighting..." idea...****...its FIGHINTING...30 mintues of fighting kills men...why is it so hard to believe it might ruin them physically.

 

If you just look at defeats as a whole; decision either lopsided or close. tko cut. tko punches. ko--long physical bout or quick ko defeat.

Which results are the hardest to come back from? It sure isn't a decision. And that's because the physical tally isn't as large as a ko/tko loss.

How many guys actually come back from the brutal ko defeats anyway? 1rst or 2nd round types and elite fighters usually do not have those results on their dossier anyway. That leaves the long sustained licking ending in ko.

I think exactly like Angie Dundee and think that is the absolute worst defeat to suffer. Because it is physical and know you have to add that to the mental part of things. And what you have is a rebuilding project, at best. It is a case of steps up and down a ladder and the guy suffering that long beating goes a few rungs down the ladder and that's his new peak. Not that old ladder's top rung.

 

Great case point mate!

 

Just some thoughts to add to the discussion...

I have a big book that isn't in front of me that I read when I was in the ring all the time -it was about boxing writ large and the last chapters were about what happens to the brain after a left hook lands on your jaw. I skipped that part. I skipped it because if I'd read it I knew I'd think about it and JT's theory would hold true -my delusion would be shattered and I'd fully realize how fragile every human being is. I thought I was the ******* son of two fathers -Carlos and Roberto and fought like that. If I read the chapter on brain injury, I'd have became Willie Pep on wheels and gone into the ring with spitballs.

...
One grueling fight can absolutely physically debilitate you and not just because of unwillingness to pull the trigger. The brain/body is designed to protect itself and those instincts can only be overcome by a strong/very strong will -or insanity- which is why so many men would never step in the ring. Are civilians not as strong as fighters or are they the sane ones?

A grueling beating changes the equation. After repeated head trauma or a KO, the brain may insist, if you will, that the body not commit itself to offense because of the risk of injury that goes with it. Every fighter knows that it takes courage to commit to a straight right hand, to a combination, to an exchange, because these are when the return shots have a better chance of shutting him down.

It's a loop -the memory of the trauma triggers the brain to compensate with a reluctance to allow the body to engage, and so the fighter does not make the commitments that he otherwise would have made. His shots are not what they once were because he may be a bit further away, or his posture is less indicative of the attitude "I'm gonna smash you" and more "I don't want to get countered."

A prolonged beating often does something like this to a fighter's will and this is why so many "second wars" are disappointments -odds are good that at least one of the fighters will be affected in this way.

 

Both mentally and physically, but mostly mentally.

 

Good post, you took the time to explain it, agree completely.

 

i agree with left hook completely,

good hard evidence and well answered to the thread.

is that book that you have called "boxing and medicine"?

 

Hard to say teally different gruelling fights effect fighters uniquely individually. look at Duran & Cuevas . both were brutally ko'd by Hearns. Yet Duran was able to continue with an effective career. While Cuevas was in effect ruined, he lost the extra ability to take a hard shot & keep attacking. Which was 80% of his game plan.
Alexis Arguello had been in gruelling wars, but the Pryor loss was devistating & he was never the same. Pryor had a much easier time in the rematch.
Saad Mohammad & Boza-Edwards had so many wars they were knocked off without much struggle in later title defenses. Saad by Braxton & Boza by Navarette.
Something happens to a fighter, who leaves it all in the ring, win ,lose or draw. Mostly mental, but sometimes physical(reflexes suddenly being shot). DeLa Hoya after the Hopkins fight. didn't dig his feet in and deliver his hard combinations. he was throwing his combinations almost from the balls of his feet, so he could get out asap.