Yes or No - Would Prime Muhammad Ali beat every other ATG in their primes?

That's not the question though, Popkins.

Would you favor Ali in one-off match-ups against all of these fighters?

 

A long held view of my own as well, as Larry actually listened to Futch and valued his counsel highly.

For me, Toledo Dempsey is another potential candidate because of his body punching, hook, and speed on the attack. (Jack's height, reach and overall speed are greater than Frazier's, and he has a bigger punch from both sides.) Dempsey's pressure would have been relentless, and Ali's propensity for giving up body shots would cost him points.

Dempsey, Ali and Holmes are my heavyweight high trinity.

However, I would not make anybody an actual favorite over Ali. Nat Fleischer conceded in 1969 that Ali was the fastest heavyweight in history, and speed kills. He'd already proved his endurance against Chuvalo and Terrell by that time. Later, his overall toughness was beyond repute.

Where Louis is concerned, Ali didn't freeze when hurt, and Frazier had 45 seconds to put him down after staggering him in round 11 of the FOTC, a match Muhammad prematurely rushed into in anticipation of an adverse SCOTUS decision against him. This was the greatest performance of Frazier's life, and he couldn't get the job done against a past peak Ali. I don't see the Louis of the Max Baer fight managing it with 1967 Ali either. After studying Marciano from films and ringside, Moore was convinced Rocky was a sucker for a hook. Sharing the ring with Marciano in reality proved a different case, and Muhammad later had a similar experience sparring with the Rock. Louis was as familiar with Ali as any retired champion could have been without actually exchanging punches, but Joe lived on opponents moving in for the kill, and Muhammad was a boxer, first and foremost. Ali wasn't Billy Conn. He'd have been going for the decision all the way.

Regarding Frazier, Smoke reached his peak in 1969. I can't see him dethroning Ali in a title challenge taking place that year. An active and peaking Muhammad would have been too fast, too mobile, too durable and elusive for Frazier to get closer than a competitive and highly entertaining UD loss. Again, Toldeo Dempsey, was faster of both hands and feet, taller with a longer reach, and could bomb with lethal impact from both sides. We did see Frazier's very best in the FOTC, but the closest we ever came to Ali's best against Smoke was in 1974, seven years past Muhammad's peak.

Louis and Frazier are top five heavyweights in my mind, but for me, there's a clear separation between those two and my top three.

 

You are something else Manbearpig patsch

PS I'll PM you if I ever need to know the absolute answer to any of boxings most unanswerable questions

 

I think Ali would be vurnerable to Frazier, Marciano,Louis,Dempsey,Walcott and possibly Charles and Lewis may have a good chance. Ali would not be undefeated and may even lose to some of the contenders in various eras

 

Bummy, Interesting that you mention Walcott, as Jersey Joe was the former titlist who most championed the opinion that Ali was indeed the GOAT HW. He did share the ring with a near peak Ali in Lewiston, and fought all those rounds with Charles, Louis and Marciano. His testimony is very hard for me to discount in assessing who my own choices would be. Walcott would certainly be a strange experience for Muhammad to contend with though, especially if he got Ali off his toes and onto the front foot in pursuit. This isn't Bugner, Blue Lewis or Mac Foster he'd be dealing with.

 

No.

As I said, Ali is not one of the fighters I would back to beat everyone who ever fought in his weight class.

Joe Frazier proved he could clearly beat Ali on any given night. I think the best versions of Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis would also give Ali trouble, and could potentially beat him.

 

I just don't give Tyson a chance anyway myself. Maybe, maybe on paper, not in reality though.

 

I'd certainly favor the best Ali to beat the best of all the other fighters mentioned here, and I also believe pre-exile to be a more efficient fighter than the one Joe Frazier fought in '71. Mike Tyson, Larry Holmes, and Joe Frazier cause him the most problems. Lewis, too.

 

lennox? no. ali was an incompetent in-fighter and that's what frazier exploited. lennox has too basic a skillset. i would tip tyson and bowe to give ali hell.

 

No ****ing way in hell. He'd get beaten by at least three of them.

 

Bowe hasn't got a straight shot in his arsenal, and he had the most trouble with boxers. Don't think he'd fair to well against The Greatest.

 

Whom and how?

 

I doubt whether Tyson would have the mental toughness to beat Ali. Once the fight inevitably went into the trenches,Tyson would start to unravel.

 

I read that Ali took the best punches from Frazier, foreman,etc and survived, BUT, he Never faced a prime Joe Louis , who unlike a frazier and Foreman unleashed "punches in bunches',unlike Ali ever faced before.
If Joe Louis already angered by ali's verbal B.S.,and mentored by Jack
Blackburn, hurt Ali with Joe's trip hammer blows,tossed with such speed and accuracy, that it woukld be cutrains for Ali, of this I am convinced...The calm Joe Louis would be motivated as never before since Schmeling No.1, and as a writer of the past once observed during Louis's
prime,' The human body was not created to withstand the fusilade of a
joe louis all out attack...And I agree...
ali had his troubles with the less ponderous opponents like Doug jones, Ken Norton[3 times], etc,and fighters like the toledo dempsey, and the
Joe Louis of his murderous prime had the speed and violent punching power that Ali never faced before...So i confidently pick a "motivated Joe Louis to Ko Ali and hurt him in the process...If a Henry cooper could drop Ali with a left hook, think what the greatest finisher in history could accomplish...

 

I can't see Bowe getting anywhere with Ali. A coming into his prime Bowe got wrong footed,quite frequently,by an over the hill Tony Tubbs' movement,so just imagine how he'd fare against Muhammad's movement.