Yes or No - Would Prime Muhammad Ali beat every other ATG in their primes?

The pre-exile Ali would have struggled with the physical side of facing a Lewis or a Bowe or a prime Vit Klit. I am not sure that the 60s Ali had the same sort of mental strength, punch resilience, experience, composure, and ring generalship as the later version, despite his obvious advantages in speed etc.

The 60s Ali would defeat and lose to different fighters than the 70s Ali would. For instance, I would back the 70s Ali to beat Mike Tyson. I would back Tyson to beat the 60s Ali.

 

I wouldn't be suprised if he beat any of them; I'd be shocked if he beat all of them.

Favoring Ali in each of the match-ups is one thing; favoring Ali to win all the match-ups is another.

 

lennox lewis has the best chance.

 

Cheers, Burt. Your familiar championing of Louis is understood and respected.

I don't put a great deal of stock in Louis-Conn I, as Joe foolishly weight drained himself, listening to the reporters who convinced him to come light, for speed. (Likewise, I consider anything prior to Liston I to be pre-prime for Ali.) However, the issues he had twice with both Pastor and Walcott a decade apart are more troubling to me. Ali had speed, reach, toughness and resilience they lacked. Early in their rematch, Pastor reiterated that Louis was not an absolutely infallible finisher, something Galento also proved in Joe's previous bout. Muhammad knew how to survive when hurt, effective at clinching, slipping, moving about, or covering up. For me, it's difficult to envision a stoppage either way.

Two arguments, one for Louis from 2004:

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

And one for Ali from 2006:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=5901&more=1

For me, the key passage in the latter (very long) article is the concluding sentence of paragraph 27, the one headed "COULD LOUIS DEFEAT ALI?" which states, "To suggest Louis would chase Ali down like Frazier did is to suggest Louis would fight a style he didn't use his entire career."

 

What exactly could Ali have gained during two tune-up fights after being inactive for 3,5 years?

As for mental strength and resilience, he showed plenty of that against Banks, Jones, Moore and Liston.

 

d, i have read both viewpoints, and i have not changed my mind one iota.
It is true Joe Louis had his problems with stickers and movers, ala Bob
Pastor and billy Conn...BUT, it is true he got the job DONE, in each bout,
and especially in the return bouts...Joe kod both of them...
Bob Pastor was a very elusive 185 pound boxer whose sole purpose in the
Louis fights were to survive by backpedaling, and avoiding trading punches, which he did well...No fighter that ever lived had it all his way
in every round...as in horse racing even secretariat was behind in many races, but eventually did his job...
i thought the question was the PRIME Ali against the [Max Baer] Joe Louis
who was possibly the Greatest fighting machine Louis that ever was...
And that Joe Louis , lithe as a panther,with the greatest array of leverage punching, ever seen would sooner or later catch up to Ali and destroy him.
Remember this please-Joe Louis had a left jab accurate and POWERFUL
that would nullify much of Ali's attack...And because Joe Louis NEVER wasted a punch , he would IF necessary carry his power into the 15th round...I fervently give a young Tyson a better chance than Ali [Style],
in the early rounds of catching Louis with an uppercut and possibly koing
Joe...But I doubt that also...
So as the old adage says"Ali can run but he can't hide ".
The peak [iron jawed Max Baer], catches up to Ali and ko's him with
a volley of powerful punches IMO...Louis by ko...b.b.

 

I can understand a peak Ali being favoured over those peak fighters on an individual basis, but obvious nobody could go 9-0 against them. I have Ali-Tyson as 50-50 & Ali-Frazier* as 55-45, Holmes & Lewis would be troublesome opponents too.

*I know Frazier has been wrongly excluded from the list, but I think he is essential.

 

What about Langford, his feints would give Ali fits?

 

Ali would make him look silly.

 

I absolutely do not expect you to change your mind Burt, and again, I have utmost respect for your long established, fully knowledgable and well entrenched views. Our task is therefore to inform, educate and convince new fans and enthusiasts with a developing interest in the sport.

The two viewpoints I linked to should probably be read by everybody considering a pairing of these two, then expanded on from what has already been expressed in those opinions, so we don't continue in circles, reheating yesterday's leftovers. What might we add to what has previously been expressed that is new? (Tomorrow, I could well find myself making the case for Louis.)

 

Dont be so silly Kally. Langford for the win :rofl

 

:huh

-Ali proved to be a frustrating target against great long jabbers like Liston and Terrell. And tall sluggers like Foreman and Williams were baffled by his hand speed and accurate combination punching.

-Lewis never fought let alone chased down and beat a fast slippery fighter of note.

Sorry, I just have no idea how one would come to this conclusion when Ali was most troubled by tough pressure fighters throughout his career like Cooper, Jones, Chuvalo, Frazier, Norton, and even Spinks. Nobody is outboxing Ali.

 

:good