Greb vs Louis. What type of chance does Greb have?

Very informative S...It is so frusterating that when all these posts are made on ESB, people forget that Tunney had a 8-9 pound weight advantage over a weary ,half blind Greb. Gene Tunney in 1923 was 26 years old,strong and in his prime...For the older and much smaller Greb to
even hold his own with gene tunney,was a great feat...
But Greb despite passing his peak, more than held his own with the future
heavyweight champion Tunney... In five fights he was the superior fighter
as well...
The more I ponder the career of the Pittsburgh Windmill, the more amazed I am...

 

Hell yes Fleischer was a yellow journalist. He CAME FROM THE SCHOOL OF YELLOW JOURNALISM. The hallmark of yellow journalism is to never let the facts get in the way of a good story this is exactly the type of writing that typified Fleischers career. He cut his teeth in the New York newspaper business during the advent of Yellow Journalism. Anyone who calls him anything else does not understand this era. Period.

As stated above, the decision was a split decision, not unanimous.

So you base your point on betting odds? If you are a gambler and under the impression that Greb could not win in New York are you going to bet for or against Greb? Against right? Ok, so taking that into account it is bets that sway odds in favor of one fighter or another (or do you not understand how oddsmakers operate?) so the idea that your opinion is swayed by oddsmakers and that is somehow mutually exclusive from the idea that Greb could have been robbed makes no sense.

I think its fairly obvious to most here that you have made up your mind based on the flimsiest of arguments and no amount of proof, smoking gun or not, is going to cause you even the slightest bit of pause for consideration.

 

"hitting and holding"

This is from Nat Fleischer, and he directly asserts that the referee warned Greb repeatedly about this. The referee enforces the rules. Are you maintaining Greb did not hit and hold?

 

Are you maintaining that Tunney was innocent of the same???

 

Was he penalized points for it?

 

Furthermore, in an article dated NOVEMBER, 3 months prior to the bout Westbrook Pegler breaks the story that the referee who would be chosen to oversee the Tunney-Greb rematch would be instructed to limit Greb's style of bouncing around, jumping in, hit and run, windmill etc. You tell me, when in history has a supposedly unbiased referee been "instructed" to limit the style of a fighter so that he is forced to a fight a flat footed fight against a larger, younger opponent? This in addition to the fact that Greb was obligated to this fight by George Engel who was then promptly fired and somehow mysteriously within a matter of weeks Tunney's contract is bought out from the very capable and respected Doc Bagley and sold to Billy Gibson (who was being backed financially by Arnold Rothstein and Max Boo Boo Hoff). Who brokered that deal working behind the scenes as Greb's manager: George Engel who had been a close friend and partner of Gibsons for over a decade... Doesnt that sound a little bit strange? Or how about the early morning phone calls to Greb's wife as she lay on death bed while Greb was in camp threatening Greb's life if he won (she would die three weeks later). But, no lets believe all the stories about Tunney being an upstanding citizen, a clean cut boy who read shakespeare and fought for his country...

 

He wasnt going to be penalized anything by his handpicked ref atsch

 

The bookmakers pretty much demanded from the NYSAC that the name of the referee that was chosen to work in the rematch to be disclosed in advance. They, too, were confused by all the anti-Greb propaganda in the newspapers, and only after being assured by Muldoon that the treatment of Greb would be perfectly fair, they gave those odds.
As was discussed in the newspapers prior to the fight, the notion that Greb was dirty and should have been penalized for it, would mean that in all those hundreds of bouts prior to that the referees and the newspapermen were incompetent for Harry never to have been disqualified and and to win decisions or opinions in the majority of his bouts. And only that particular referee supposedly knowing the rules and how they should be applied. But Haley proved his incompetence or inconsistence by rarely if ever reprimanding Tunney for the fouls he committed, the same holding and hitting tactics and for hitting low multiple times.

 

"He cut his teeth in the New York Newspaper business during the advent of yellow journalism"

And so did most of the other reporters you are quoting. You just disagree with Fleischer.

Why exactly would it be a better story to say that the second Tunney-Greb fight was unanimous rather than a split decision? I don't think it would matter to Nat, or even Tunney, all that much.

The Tribune said it was a split decision. Both the Times and Time Magazine implied it was unanimous, lumping all three officials together. I can't judge who is right or wrong, but I think Fleischer probably would have tried to be accurate about such things, even if he made a mistake.

 

yes but it wasnt his choice to do so...

 

So Patsey Haley was appointed referee by the NYSAC headed by William Muldoon with the instructions to limit Greb's LEGAL tactics like bouncing around, all this under the orders of the mob who are really calling the shots. So Haley does as directed, and then Muldoon complains about the decision?

And with the referee and judges fixed, they were phoning Greb's wife to threaten him? Wouldn't they be a bit worried about Greb just pulling out of the fight. He was champion, after all. He could have fought other people in other places and made good money. Who exactly called? Do you know?

 

I would want to know why Muldoon handpicked the referee for Tunney and then complained about the decision.