Greb vs Louis. What type of chance does Greb have?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Jun 27, 2009.


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  1. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Surf-Bat, Sep 23, 2010
    Surf-Bat, Sep 23, 2010
    #256
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that Greb did ocasionaly turn outright technical boxer.

    In his title fight against Wilson for example.
     
    janitor, Sep 23, 2010
    janitor, Sep 23, 2010
    #257
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    That emphatically finishes that conjecture.:good:lol:
     
    mcvey, Sep 23, 2010
    mcvey, Sep 23, 2010
    #258
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It dosnt finish it, but it is an argument that has to be noted.

    Dillon should have been the middleweight champion but for ND rules.
     
    janitor, Sep 23, 2010
    janitor, Sep 23, 2010
    #259
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The Dillon fights confimed by Boxrec as being fought at MW are:

    The loss to Harry Greb
    One of two losses to Frank Klaus
    A draw with Bob Moha

    Of the 35 fighters who received votes in the recent Classic forum poll on the greatest ever MW, Dillon was conspicuous by his absence, but absent none the less.

    Flowers finished at #15.

    I think labelling Dillon a better MW is conjecture at best, and certainly not proven.
     
    McGrain, Sep 23, 2010
    McGrain, Sep 23, 2010
    #260
  6. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    Eddie McGoorty
    Mike Gibbons
    Jack Dillon
    Mike ODowd


    Arguably Jeff Smith
    Leo Houck


    Just because most of these guys didnt hold a title and are sadly forgotten today doesnt mean that they were worse than Flowers. Id pick McGoorty to decapitate Flowers and Jack Dillon would likely do a number on him as well. I think at his best Flowers wasnt any better than the 1917 version of Greb that Gibbons took to school. Smith was a hot and cold performer but when he was hot he could do it all and would have been a nightmare for Flowers, same with O'Dowd. Houck is hugely underrated today. He probably has the most outside chance of those listed above because he wasnt a huge puncher but he could do everything else and fought everyone. He would have given Flowers a lot of problems. I hate to say this because Flowers beat Greb for the title but I think the guy is overrated. His biggest wins were against guys who were past their prime and he was pretty huge for a MW, kind of like BHop. He stood just under 5'11 in an era of same day weigh ins where most guys were averaging around 5'8". He was a very good fighter but to say he was the best MW Greb fought is a huge insult to Gibbons, and the other guys up there.
     
    klompton, Sep 23, 2010
    klompton, Sep 23, 2010
    #261
  7. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    None of these arguments are proven...


    Just because Dillons weight isnt confirmed by Boxrec doesnt mean he wasnt a legit MW. There is also no way to prove that Flowers wouldnt have lost to or drawn with Klaus, and Moha, much less a 1917 Harry Greb with two eyes.
     
    klompton, Sep 23, 2010
    klompton, Sep 23, 2010
    #262
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I would not put Flowers in my top 20 at 160lbs.Possibly not 25.
     
    mcvey, Sep 23, 2010
    mcvey, Sep 23, 2010
    #263
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Jack Dillon beat the snot out of Frank Klaus in an ND fight, while Klaus was champion.
     
    janitor, Sep 23, 2010
    janitor, Sep 23, 2010
    #264
  10. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    Id take that with a grain of salt. Klaus had beaten Dillon easily a couple of times and the one time they fight in Indy Dillon wins... Dillon was a god in Indy from the time he was a welterweight, you werent beating Dillon on a ND in Indy. Go through his record and see how many times he lost in Indy...
     
    klompton, Sep 23, 2010
    klompton, Sep 23, 2010
    #265
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    As you say.

    The board as a whole hasn't put Jack Dillon in it's top thirty-five.

    The board isn't always right of-course - and this is an occasion where it is wrong - but there it is.


    And Klaus beat Dillon over ten rounds, and in a tilt supposed to settle the crown's destination, twenty rounds, did he not?
     
    McGrain, Sep 23, 2010
    McGrain, Sep 23, 2010
    #266
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, I know that.

    If you draw up a list of Dillon's efforts versus the best at or near the weight, allowing a little lee-way it gets very impressive. Nevertheless, he was beaten in series with Klaus, Greb and Gibbons (?).

    His W column only becomes prevailent when we include still great fighters but rather lesser lights - Chip, Gardner etc.


    Flowers on the other hand won his series with Greb and was seemingly on the end of an absolutely horrible decision versus Walker - these are the two best MW's he tackled, supplemented by domination of series with guys like Malone and Bogash. I like that better. Quite a bit better actually.
     
    McGrain, Sep 23, 2010
    McGrain, Sep 23, 2010
    #267
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Basically it's like this - if you beat a guy who belongs at the very very top of your division (inarguably) twice for the title you earn big. Whatever you want to call it, kudos, legacy, greatness, if you beat a live version of that fighter - and Greb was still absolutely excellent when he twice lost to Flowers - you earn oodles of the stuff. Dillon can't match these wins, except with losses.
     
    McGrain, Sep 23, 2010
    McGrain, Sep 23, 2010
    #268
  14. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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    SLAKKA, Sep 23, 2010
    SLAKKA, Sep 23, 2010
    #269
  15. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not to mention the decisions were controversial, to say the least.
     
    El Bujia, Sep 23, 2010
    El Bujia, Sep 23, 2010
    #270
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