Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

The last time I scored it it was 117-115 to JMM. I know. Don't ask. It was pathological. I had four tied rounds and the seventh was a mess.

It was really close. JMM was more out-boxed in that than in several fights he supposedly 'lost'.

Really telling was a moment in the 11th where they flashed up the punch stats for the whole fight. I can't remember the exact numbers but both MAB and JMM had thrown exactly the same number with MAB landing just 1 more than JMM: Something like (208/529) vs. (207/529).

 

My memory's hazy, but I did something weird with the 7th, like giving the round to JMM (because, the knockdown aside, he was kicking MAB's rear that round), then counting the knockdown (because it was legit), then taking into account the penalty point, so it ended up being a normal 10-9 round to JMM (actually 9-8, but pushed up). Though, really, it could have gone from 10-8 to JMM to 10-8 to Barrera and several permutations in-between.

You're right about that weird outlier card, too. It seems to happen quite a lot. There was that strange 119-109 in the Williams-Martinez fight. Just leaves a sour taste.

 

As a '26-pounder -- ABSOLUTELY! JMM was a fight-trainer's dream. Though he had the delicate hands of a concert pianist, he was 100% ol' school pro. Could go to plan B, C, 'n D, had every tool, could crack with both hands, didn't rattle under fire, 'n the balls of a heavyweight

 

The judge who scored Marquez-Barrera 118-109 for Marquez was the infamous Doug Tucker. All of his scorecards should be voided to be fair as he was a totally incompetent judge. He also scored Griffin-Toney II a shutout for Griffin, and outrageously scored the Mijares-Navarro fight a shutout for Navarro.

 

You two guys are preaching the truth on this thread as I see it. :happy


It appears that to be termed an "All-Time Great" these days, all someone has to do is hang around the world title scene for a few years.

Juan Manuel Marquez did have very good ability, he should make it to the HOF in my opinion, and I rate him higher than some of his more celebrated contemporaries, such as Joe Calzaghe.

However, I refuse to accept someone with a win resume like Marquez's justifies the title of "All-Time Great".


Marquez's best wins are: A clearly past-prime Casamayor. A clearly past-prime Barrera. Juan Diaz. Derrick Gainer. Robbie Peden. A clearly past-prime Manuel Medina. Rocky Juarez.

Is this really the resume of an all-time great?

No. For me the answer is clear. It is a good resume, it is most certainly not an all-time great one, despite Marquez's considerable abilities.

 

Pop, you're a reasonable guy, how did you score MAB-Marquez?

 

7-5 JMM, if I remember rightly, perhaps 8-4, I haven't kept my card for that one. Close but reasonably clear (though not particularly impressively).

 

If only Marquez got the W. in at least one of the Pacquaio fights(Officially). Then his position would have been solidified. Pac. was in his absolute prime. no excuses.

 

I don't even think he had a case in the first one. In fact, Pac was robbed of a well earned win because of an incompetent judge.

Second fight could have gone his way though.

 

I think Pacquiao coming out with the results of 1-0-1 from the series is about right. A third fight I feel wouldn't have been good for Marquez.

 

Fine, but he's still greater than Pacquaio :yep

 

Marquez fought very well in the first fight. but multiple knockdowns are an impossible handicap to overcome in a close fight.