except I did answer it. Setting up for punches in boxing is not a move and setting up for submissions in bjj is not a move.
I've supported it in this thread and in the other ones. When matt hughes fought both gracies, where was the high level bjj? where was the sweeps? the seamless transitions, advanced submissions, etc. NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. When mir fought brock lesner for the 2nd time, where was the high level bjj? NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. Where was the high level bjj when pen fought edgar? or when pen fought gsp both times? NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. As the sport evolves and people start getting half a clue of what they are doing, the more advanced bjj becomes more and mroe useless. Yes, I know, and his submission LOSSES prove my point. He was submitted with BASIC LEVEL SUBMISSIONS. Thanks for proving my point. Do you ever wonder if they even attempt to do it in the first place? Why on earth would a rookie even attempt to submit a veteran when there's other ways they can win? Except I never said they don't fight quality opponents. I said they don't use their high level bjj FREQUENTLY AGAINST QUALITY OPPONENTS. Try again.
So really your arguement is about pointless semantics? Whether you class a technique as a "move" or not(a very ill defined term anyway) really says nothing about the level of skill behind it.
OMG...how much simpler do I need to make this for you? You used the Gracies'/Mir's/BJ's losses as examples of high-level bjj being ineffective in MMA. So logic supposes that if those fighters somehow ignored their high-level skills AND somehow only used basic-level skills, they would have been better off. So now it's on you to show how basic-level & high-level bjj are mutually exclusive, since that's the only way you can prove your argument. In fact, your argument, as it is now, is an argument for bjj as a whole being ineffective in MMA, not just high-level bjj. You just shot down your own argument...:rofl Since they ALL have the same basic-level bjj and that's all you need in MMA, why would it matter whether the opponent is a rookie or veteran if you wanted to submit them...:think There must be something beyond the rookie's basic-skills that would deter him from even attempting to submit a veteran...:think Maybe some skill sets that are higher than what the rookie brings to the table...:think Aoki & Palhares have submitted multiple quality opponents w/ high-level bjj moves. The only way your stance makes sense is if you're saying the people they submitted w/ high-level bjj moves weren't quality. So either you're wrong or you're talking out of your ass.
You're trying to repalce the word "useless" with the word "ineffective" but it's not the same thing. I am saying high level bjj is USELESS as in not needed. It is ineffective in the sense that you don't need it. Logic supposes that if those fighters ignored their high level bjj MOVES (not skills) and just used basic level bjj, they would have had THE SAME RESULTS. I'd go as far to argue that the time they put into getting the high level bjj status could be used to improve in other areas then yes they would be better off. Try again. You've done nothing but hit this laughable straw man of your own creation. No, it isn't, funny how you think can tell me what my own argument is :rofl No, I didnt shoot my own argument in the face, in fact I strengthened it. The very fact that there are other ways to win other than submissions further shows the uselessness of high level bjj, since rookies don't need to rely on soley submissions they can just learn the basics and win in other ways, ala mir lesner 2. I guess you didn't see the LATEST ufc did you? where 2 BJJ blackbelts got roflstomped in their respective areas? :rofl Name these "multiple" quality opponents and you better not go back in time where nobody knew where people were still learning the ground game i.e. the early ufc/pride days.
26 :rofl Texas. 4 months ago and I got it by roflstomping people in tournies and teaching classes, of course, obviously I had to progress through the other belts, not that any of this has anything to do with any of the argument I am making in this thread. I could be a farmer or a coal miner, the validity of my argument has nothing to do with any of your questions.
Yeah...full of it. Scared to even give the name of your instructor. I'll tell you mine and you can have a field day with it. Julio Fernandez. 7th degree BJJ Black Belt. Google him all you want, you'll find the general area I live. Big whoop. Highly unlikely that anyone gives a **** enough to track me down.
Not full of it, not that I care what you think. Not only is it COMPLETLEY unecessary as it has absolutely nothing at all to do with the validity of my points. 2+2=4 is valid no matter who says it and what background they come from. Same thing with my points. :rofl all you did was provide me with the name of your instructor, whoopdie do. Now how about you spend less time on these red herrings and more time on my argument.:rofl
I just read through this whole post, as i'm at work with nothing better to do and found it quite interesting. I gotta say imo i completely agree with Theologicaldisc on the main issue. There will always be exceptions to the rule here and there, but by and large, basic level bjj moves performed with a high skill level (which is gained through experience/repition) is what works in MMA; high level bjj moves are useless to almost all mma practicioners. There will always be the 5% who can and do use them alot, but the fact there is only 5% of mma fighters who use them strengthen the arguement. If they were useful in MMA fights, more guys would win by using them. It is just a handful of phenomenally skilled guys who can do it. The 'high level' submission moves listed earlier would make a very small component of all submission wins, and an even smaller percentage of total wins in general. Alot of people here have attacked him, called him names, gotten angry/upset and used emotional arguements, and even asked him personal details that are completely irrelevant. But he for the most part hasn't attacked anyone, called anyones names or anyhting like that. He has just spoken his mind and tried to stick to the arguement at hand. Alot of you really need to take a step back. Remember that internet forums are there to promote discussion and thought on topics, not to destroy someone who has a different point of view. Arguing over the internet like alot of you are doing is pointless; insert reference about winning in the special olympics here.
Well, if that's all I did then I still did something you didn't. And I couldn't care less about your "argument" (if that's what you want to call it). You're saying you're a Brown Belt in BJJ and I'm calling bull****. If it smells like bull****, looks like bull**** then it's probably...
