Rank the following 8 fighters.

I think he was great myself. Purely on a basis of my own assessment and without listening to other's over or under rating of him. He had a lot more than what you mentioned, his timing and punching form was superb, he was fine technically, clearly not in all aspects of his game, but in areas where he he has technique down, he had it down. A great body puncher as well, he never neglected the body. His struggles with out-boxing types will always be there for people to be able to use as a tool to detract from him, rtightly so to some extent. Clearly great though for me.

 

His footwork wasn´t that good IMO and he was a bit slowly. Remembers me a bit of Louis.

I think him, Chocolate and Canzoneri were the best 130 pounders ever. Mayweather deserves a mention too but I think he would lose to all three. Notice that I said best not greatest.

 

Yeah, his feet were only good in terms of using in conjunction with his hips to get power into the shots, so i fully agree there.

I agree on Chocolate, Canzoneri and Arguello as well, but Mayweather is right there with them foe me, in terms of who was the best as well, i'm very speculative as to whether he was simply the best 130 man, but i'm not really ready to get conclusive yet. Right after them is Flash Elorde.

EDIT- reply to Bodhly (forgot to quote)

 

I don't rank fighters, but that's what I'm most interested in.

 

1. Jofre - Awesome fighter.
2. JC Chavez - At 130-140, top 5 all time in all 3 divisions possibly.
3. Spinks(175) - Who couldn't have he beaten at 175?
4. Arguello - Timeless.
5. Basilio - 2 division champ when that meant something.
6.Hearns - Great fighter, lost the big ones.
7. Holmes - His heavy era worse than current.
8. RJJ - Ducked too many fighters.

 

atsch

 

Yeah those videos of Jones being dropped by Tarver, Johnson, and Green just exclaim invincible...gtfoohatsch

Arguello fought everybody never made excuses either and showed he had a much better chin than Jones or Hearns

 

Spinks over Jones is a very sound call.

Just when I thought you was starting to be a good poster.

I agree on that.

Gavilan beat him, yes. It was close, I don't think there was too much controvesy as it was a very close fight. Even then it is showing he is as good as Gavilan. Why do you think Gavilan was 'past his prime'? I think he was pretty much in it.

Robinson was old, but an old Robinson is better than anything on Jones record. Robinson despite being old was still the best Middleweight around at that particular time, and a great fighter.

And this makes him a terrible win why?

You are a good technical observationist. Shame you have terrible bias at times.

You cannot deny that Zarate was hittable. Sure he had a good defence but he could be hit because of his style. It is not that big of a detraction really. But don't go overboard and say he is superb defensively and gets so under-rated there.

He had superb timing, is the words you are looking for. Jim Watt-esque

There is no way in which Chavez is a better puncher than Zarate.

itry, do not talk absolute crap. Arguello is a bona fide ATG. He was in no way 'shite'. Don't even talk any crap like that.

Yes you could. Arguello is one of the best punchers ever, who was accurate as hell and mixed up his shots well, and was a superb counter-puncher that could take you out at any minute.

Sure he had mobility issues but so does a Challenger II tank. And Arguello's mobility issues are so over-thought of. At Featherweight he was quite nimble.

Yeh, he was just a big punching slugger who got lucky.

:good

My list.


1. Jofre
2. Hearns
3. Arguello
4. Basilio
5. Spinks
6. Chavez
7. Jones
8. Holmes

This list is crap though, as every fighter is so even. My tier's would be

Jofre/Hearns/Arguello/Basilio

Spinks/Chavez/Jones

Holmes

 

Is it possible for someone to break down Jofre for me? I've seen a bit of him on youtube and he looks a superb fighter but I don't see the depth in his resume that puts him above the likes of Spinks, Hearns, Arguello. I'm not underrating him I just need educating! Thanks

 

Too right, Ali looked invincible vs Jimmy Young and Holmes vs Michael Spinks too. Duran vs SRL II and III as well. Then we have Joe Louis vs Charles and yson vs Holyfield.

 

I broke him down in a recent thread by Addie about Jofre being the Number 1 Bantamweight, if you want to have a look for it

Ah, I get you. I would still favour Zarate as whatever punch Zarate was throwing it was able to take you out, because of his foot placement.

 

Addie, sometimes I get the impression that you conflate aesthetic appeal with quality. (Particularly as far as combinations are concerned.) It really doesn't matter what a fighter looks like as long as they get the job done.

Chavez wasn't a massive combination puncher anyway - really more of a singles/doubles guy until he went in for the kill.

I don't know why you started comparing the two anyway - as if picking out another ATG who does a couple of things better than Zarate detracts from him in some way.

 

Arguello was great and has a better record, but Zarate was a superior fighter.

 

carmen basilio is 8th, don't know about the rest