Why did Sugar Ray Robinson duck Charley Burley

to get to the other side

 

Not enough money in it and Burley was difficult to look good against, even in winning. Burley had also left the welterweight ranks to campaign in the middleweight division at the time Robinson started making waves as a welter.

 

You can't really say Robinson ducked Burley since he wasn't champion when a fight could have been done. Contenders doesn't "duck" other opponents. But the fight could certainly be made (was close to being it in fact), but Robinson probably thought it was too high risk/low reward, even though he would have gotten his largest purse to that date.

 

i'm guessing you have been watching this video.

pity there is only the billy smith footage to analyse...is there any other footage i dont know about ?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81non05aKX4[/ame]

 

he didn't

 

Risk-Reward
/thread

 

I'm of the opinion that it would have been a pretty dull fight though. I still wish it had happened mind you.

 

Nah

Burley would win one, lose one... that's all it took for a good black fighter to lose a title shot in those days. Even if SRR wanted to fight Burley... it's not about what the fighters want... it's about what the managers want.

No way SRR was offered a career best payday to face Burley. Fights with popular fighters like Lamotta, Basilio, Fullmer, Maxim, Graziano, etc... were bigger (money wise) no doubt.

When should they have fought?

Burley turned pro in '36

lost to Eddie Dolan in '37

lost to Fritzie Zivic in '38 (avenged later that year)

beat Cocoa Kid in '38 for the Colored WW Title

lost to Jimmy Leto in '39 (avenged later that year)

lost to Holman Wiliams in '39

drew with Georgie Abrams in '40

lost to Jimmy Bivins in '40

he won his next 20 (vs. mostly lower level guys)including a win over Holman Williams

he lost to Ezzard Charles twice in, he won 2 out of 3 to Holman Williams, and he lost to Lloyd Marshall in '42

he drew with Cocoa Kid and fought a NC with Holman Williams in '43

he beat Archie Moore in '44

he lost to Holman Willimas in '45

 

Robby saying he was too pretty to fight Burley wasn't the same as expressing the expectation that he would lose.

Charley himself admitted that he would have wanted no part of Ray if their positions had been reversed.

Burley was around a dozen or more pounds heavier at most times during their parallel careers in the 1940s. Ray made his debut at 134 in October 1940. A few months earlier, Charley came in at 156 for Abrams. By 1945, Burley was coming in as high as 166, while Robby barely got to 150. SRR finally attained the WW Title at the end of 1946, Burley's last really significant year of competition. By then Charley was a long time full fledged MW who hadn't made 147 since a year and a half before Ray turned professional.

For Burley to really push for a match between the two, he needed to break away from California, Pittsburgh and Minneapolis, and establish a shadowing presence in eastern PA, NYC, Detroit, Chicago and New Jersey, favored haunts of Ray's where the fight going public was familiar with the Sugar Man.

A sterling record was quickly amassed by Robinson. Eight months after his entry into the punch for pay ranks, he beat reigning LW king Angott for the movie camera. Burley had nine defeats by the end of 1942. 54(34KO)-9(0)-1 is a very respectable record based upon numbers alone, but it doesn't quite have the luster of the pristine 40(29KO)-0-0 that Robby entered 1943 with. By that time, Ray had already beaten Servo, Zivic and Angott 2X each, stopping the uber tough Fritzie on the second attempt, where Burley had previously failed in three tries. He was also one for one against up and coming contemporary LaMotta, the only full sized MW contender he would tangle with prior to the end of WW II.

Jake had an enormous advantage over Burley when it came to getting fights with Robinson. He was so much of a New Yorker that "Bronx Bull" was among his monikers. LaMotta was able to secure those numerous high profile venue locations like NYC, Philly, Chicago, and Detroit for his bouts.

Even with the advantages LaMotta and Robinson had over Burley, they had a long wait and difficult time finally securing title shots. If it was hard for Robby and Jake, then what chance did the much lower profile and less glamorous or compelling Murderer's Row clique have?

 

The offer was made in '46 I believe

 

yes, it's an intriguing question isn't it.What with B-Hop and Burley being the only smart defensively sound guys around you can see why they were ducked.Oh, and high ring IQ.

 

So, when should this fight have taken place?

In '42 SRR (142 Lbs) was a WW and former LW but he fought Lamotta (157 3/4 Lbs) for the first time, W10. He lost to Lamotta in '43. Even in '44 he had only fought a few MWs. By '45 he was pretty comfortable fighting MWs even though his career highest weight was 151 3/4 Lbs.

In '42 Burley lost to Ezzard Charles twice, he won 2 out of 3 to Holman Williams, and he lost to Lloyd Marshall. His fight weights in '42 were 148 3/4 - 160 Lbs.

The closest thing to an answer would be '44 or '45 but in all honesty SRR wasn't ducking Burley during this time... or any other time IMO.

Sure, Burley probably wanted the fight but that doesn't mean that he was being ducked... James Toney would like to fight one of the Klitschko's but it will never happen... is Toney being ducked?

It's not like the public was demanding for this fight, they weren't.