If JACK DEMPSEY was fighting today...how far would he get?

Perhaps not the best example.

Jack Johnson makes a better model for Eddie Chambers in many ways, and Willard fought more of an outside game against him than against Moran.

 

Janitor its been fun but I really don't think were going to move on with this with you thinking Willard is within 10 classes of the Klits, he wasn't. And Dempsey was nicknamed a brawler, brawlers can often be good finishers, I suppose you could argue he was a pressure fighter. Dempsey had some decent skill in some ways but compared to others top fighters he really is limited, even for a heavyweight I'd rate Marciano as being the more skilled of the 2. He certainly isn't in the league of a Duran

 

Do you think that Rocky Marciano would have disposed of Morris, Fulton, Willard and Firpo as quickly or efficiently as Dempsey did?

 

Maybe maybe not, I don't rate fighters on how quick they can score a KO but how effective they are overall. I see Rocky not getting hit as clean as often as Dempsey. I don't see him struggling with the Meehans/Miskes and I think Rocky would break Tunney down for sure

 

I hope his style doesnt get tranfered into what is common today..then he wont get very far at all..

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wxHY3p9DiQ[/ame]

 

Not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that Johnson was similar to Chambers in style?

The footage that I have seen is limited, but the reports I've read declare Willard as fighting a "counter puncher's" type of fight against Johnson. While he may have fought part of that bout from a distance, it was not his typical stance, and remember he was facing a much older, slower moving target.. I can't see any similarities being drawn between Willard's style and either of the Klit brothers, particularly not Wladimir. In fact, there are probably more common characteristics between Willard and Riddick Bowe than there are with the Klits, and even then we'd be stretching things.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaPxa-eZss&feature=related[/ame]

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrmj6eAFGc[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpZdSNB93Mo[/ame]

 

Tale of the Tape
Jack Dempsey

Height
Weight
Reach
Chest/Norm.
Chest/Exp.
Waist
Biceps
Neck
Wrist
Calf
Ankle
Thigh
Fist
Forearm


6-1
192
77
42
46
33
16¼
16½
9
15
9
23
11¼
14½


Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson tale of the tape

Hlfld Tyson
Record 33-3 45-2
KOs 24 39
Age 34 30
Weight 218 218
Height 6-2 1/2 5-11 1/2
Reach 77 1/2 71
Chest (normal) 43 43
Chest (expanded) 45 45
Biceps 16 16
Forearm 12 1/2 14
Waist 32 34
Thigh 22 27
Calf 13 19
Neck 19 1/2 20 1/2
Wrist 7 1/2 8
Fist 12 1/2 13

 

I don't think anybody is dispution that Marciano would do better against small technical boxers due to his pressure and workrate.

Bigger fighters are Dempseys game however. If you put a Marciano or Frazier in against Fulton, Willard or Morris they are going to need pleanty of rounds to break them down. What Dempsey had that they didnt was finishing ability and economy.

 

Haye is definitely a lot worse on the inside, and I think a lot easier to hit overall. Jack's hand and foot speed along with his bob'n'weave made it hard for him to tag with any significance, at least the contender/title shot version. The slower, inactive, heavier version simply suffered from the fate of every great swarmer who lets up on their training regimen- reverting to a slugger, abandoning great head movement and a fast step in, and becoming overall much easier to find. Tyson's a pretty good example of that degeneration, I think.

In my mind, he was the first pressure fighter with some sophistication. The style he used, trying to pressure opponents into making a mistake and then bouncing in with a two handed attack is really the most fleshed out version of that style we had seen at that point. Guys like Hart, Sharkey, and Burns who had a somewhat similar style weren't as developed by any means in terms of lateral movement, head slips, etc. He was just a stepping stone to guys like my avatar who would refine that style, but for his innovations i think he deserves more credit than his actual ring innovations. What he lacked was the constant pressure and ring cutting that guys like Frazier would exhibit.

Without Demps i wonder what guys like Rocky, Armstrong, Tyson, and quite a few more would look like.

 

I don't know if Marciano and Frazier wouldn't succeed against big guys. We didn't get to see Rocky in with any quality giants. Frazier got dominated by an ATG giant, but beat a pretty good 1 in Bugner

 

1. Haye is worse on the inside that JD but he is allot better on the outside. And no JD was not that hard to hit, otherwise he wouldn't get decisioned by Meehan and Miske (according to 1 of 2 papers), and ofcourse get sparked by Flynn

2. I'm not sure he was a better pressure fighter/educated brawler than say Langford, although there isn't the video evidence to make a judgement, there are likely others who shaped the standard of the educated brawling pressure fighters