Where is Holyfield on your ATG Heavyweight list?

1. Rocky Marciano
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Jack Johnson
4. Joe Louis
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Sonny Liston
7. Larry Holmes
8. George Foreman
9. Mike Tyson
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Jersey Joe Walcott
12. Lennox Lewis
13. Evander Holyfield
14. Riddick Bowe
15. Gene Tunney
16. Joe Frazier
17. John L. Sullivan
18. Floyd Patterson
19. Michael Spinks
20. Jim Corbett
21. Jim Jeffries
22. Max Baer
23. Vitali Klitschko
24. Bob Fitzsimmons
25. Michael Moorer
26. Hasim Rachman
27. Max Schmeling
28. Jack Sharkey
29. Ingemar Johansson
30. Jess Willard
31. Buster Douglas
32. Leon Spinks
33. Primo Carnera
34. Tommy Burns
35. Jimmy Braddock
36. Marvin Hart

Hmmm...

 

What is your criteria Rocky?

 

Head to head. Who he thinks would beat who.

 

And yet he's got Charles top 10 above the likes of Lewis and Frazier? Marciano the best H2H heavyweight ever? He's got both Spinks' in there? Sullivan in there? Braddock in there? Beggar's belief.

 

It's his list and all that, but he thinks people who disagree are wrong/stupid. Grates on you after a while.

To prove a point, I am far from a supporter of Vitali, but I can't see Patterson getting the best of him at all.

 

I'm far from a supporter of Vitali aswell, but John L Sullivan?

Further undermined by the fact he doesn't have Wlad in there, who's the superior fighter of the two in all senses.

Marciano at one aswell, he probably loses to most of his top 10 for starters.

 

Yeah **** knows what it's all about but he's unique at least.

 

I have Holyfield on the same tier as Walcott, Patterson, and Charles. They were not dominating Champions like Ali, Marciano, Louis, Tyson, and Lewis...but possibly the greatest warriors of the modern heavyweight era, they didn't always win but they eventually fought everybody around and were still overall very successful.

 

He definitely ranks above Tyson. Above Dempsey too, as much as I love the Manassa Mauler.

Ali and Louis should go above him. Holmes and perhaps Marciano too. Arguably a few others - Foreman, Frazier, Lewis - but I wouldn't personally argue that.

 

Oh don't get too snarky Rocky. You've been provided with a quality education here over the past few days, and I certainly hope that you continue to polish your boxing knowledge so that maybe you can contribute something to the board one day.

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People still have Dempsey in their top 5??? I don't get it. **** it, I'm just gonna start putting whoever/wherever and come up with a reason why it should be that way.

Buster Douglas is #1... prime, in-shape, well prepared, and motivated Douglas that is... from 05/31/87 - 10/24/90 he was the greatest fighter ever!!! Here's why-

Went 7-0 (5) during this time beating World Champs Trevor Berbick (WBC) W10, Oliver McCall (WBC) W10, and Mike Tyson (Lineal and 2x WBA/WBC) KO10 (became the Undisputed/Lineal HW Champ when he beat Tyson). He also beat Jerry Halstead KO9 and Mike Williams KO7 during this time.

Don't argue with me... he must have been the best ever. He went undefeated vs. Berbick, McCall, and Tyson... who else ever did that?

 

He also recorded a pretty good win against Greg Page, but that wasn't during that fabulous steak you just mentioned.. I think Leon Spinks should be # 2, virtue of his wins over Muhammad Ali, Bernardo Mercado, and Alfio Rhigetti... Just saying...

 

Dempsey was good, he beat plenty of good fighters. He beat his share of bums as well. He even lost to a few non-greats. Some say his fights with Fireman Jim Flynn were fixed (LKOby1 and WKO1). I wonder if people would say that had he won both fights by 1st round KO?

Anyway his record reads differently depending on the source but give or take a few wins and it's going to look something like this-

65-6-11 (50) 1NC overall, 7-2 (5) in HW World Title Fights, and he was stopped just once (dive or no dive).

He beat Sharkey, Firpo, Gibbons, Carpentier, Brennan, Miske, Willard, Levinsky, Fulton, and others.

Top 5 at HW all-time? IDK?

I can't put him above Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Louis, Marciano, Lewis, Holyfield, and others.

 

:hey

 

Yes, he managed to beat Greg Page when he was still green. A prime Douglas would have made much easier work of Page.

We never even seen Douglas at his best. Sure, the Tyson win is impressive but he actually peaked in March of 1990 (a month after the Tyson fight)... by April he had started to fade... by the time he fought Holyfield later that fall he was well past prime.

1988-89 Douglas beats them all!

March of 1990 Douglas? He destroys them all. What else can I say?