Was Johnson counted out against Choynski?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Oct 15, 2010.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Conflicting reports on this fight state one of the following
    Johnson was knocked cold.
    From a left hook. [ this was reckoned to be Choynski's best punch].
    Right cross to the temple.
    Straight right to the point of the jaw.
    The fight was stopped by the police while Johnson was on the canvas, but before he was counted out.

    PS .This is NOT an attempt to minimise Choynski's wonderful victory in any way.
    Or, imply Johnson was NOT going to be ko'd.

    It is an attempt to clarify the circumstances of Choynski's win.
     
  2. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Galveston Daily News
    "Joe Choynski put Jack Johnson to sleep last night in less than three rounds. The trick was done so quickly that few realized what had happened, and while the referee was doing the counting they expected to see the colored man rise and face the music again. But he did not, and Choynski has put another laurel in his fistic crowd. Both came out of the contest without a scratch.
    ...
    The third round was scarcely started when Johnson fell forward into the arms of Choynski and gradually sank to the floor, face downward. The referee began counting and Johnson rolled onto his back. He did not rise when 10 seconds were counted, and was called out.
    ...
    In speaking of the blow that did the business, Referee Bernan said it was a feint with the left and a strike with the right on the jaw that put Johnson to sleep."
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Thank you ,if this is correct it might account for the confusion over whether it was the left or right that did the damage.
    Johnson himself said in later years that Choynski's left hook was more lethal than either Dempsey's or Louis's.
     
  4. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Don't worry, as soon as I meet one heterosexual genie, we're going to get all of these fights on film, in full. :deal
     
  5. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Clearly if he rolled over when he was down he was not "put to sleep" - that doesn't ring true straight away so that would make me doubt the validity of the account - plus I've read another account from Johnson himself where he says himself that before he could get up the police jumped in to arrest them both??? So you know something's not right about this - it might be just one of those 6 of one and half a dozen of the other type scenarios
     
  6. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    IMO Choinsky is one of the most underrated p4p fighters.
     
  7. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "At Galveston, Tex., last night, Joe
    Choynski knocked Jack Johnson, a colored
    fighter, out in the third round of a
    twenty-round bout with a right hook on the jaw.
    A squad of Texas rangers under
    Captain Brock thereupon dashed into the
    ring and arrested Choynski and Johnson
    who are now at police headquarters
    awaiting the arrival of Recorder Allen to
    fix bonds. The arrests were made at the
    instigation of Governor Sayers, who had
    counsel and witnesses at the ring aide.
    The penalty under the Texas law for engaging
    in a prize fight is from two to five
    years in the penitentiary at hard labor.
    Counsel representlng the State stated he
    would insist on a bond for each man. It
    is probable that the promoters of the
    fight will also be arrested."

    or
    "Galveston, Texas— Joe Choynski
    knocked out Jack Johnson, colored, last
    night in the third round of what was
    to have been a twenty-five round go
    before the Galveston Athletic club
    Juist as the negro went to the floor a
    state ranger stepped into the ring and
    arrested the fighters."
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Matt , did you know Johnson paid for Choynski to come to Galveston?

    Some extracts from" Jack Johnson & His Times".

    "The fight lasted just three rounds.In the third Joe landed a left hook to the temple ,and Jack crashed over on his back.
    He declared ,in later years ,this was the hardest punch he ever took.

    Johnson was struggling on thre floor of the ring,though according to Choynski ,he was utterly incapable of beating the count,when five giants in ten gallon hats sprang into the ring."

    "They told me Johnson was a novice,when they asked me to come down and fight him . He is no novice.The novices are the experts that didn't recognize this boy is a a coming champion" Joe Choynski.
     
  9. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Eight hundred of the lovers of the manly art crowded into the Galveston Athletic Club's hall last night to witness Joe Choynski and Jack Johnson, a negro, engage in a twenty-round setto. Both men showed up well, but it was apparent from the very beginning that Johnson was outclassed. He, however, showed up well in the first and second rounds, but his Waterloo came in the third, when Choynski caught him on the jaw with a right hook and he went down and out like a log. Here came a surprise for the pugilists. Johnson had scarcely been knocked out before a squad of Texas Rangers under Captain Brooks dashed into the ring and arrested Choynski and Johnson, who were escorted to their dressing room and permitted to dress.
     
  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pretty consistant reports, I think.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Well, one says it was a left hook, one says it was a right hand, but all agree it didn't do Johnson much good whether it was right or left :lol:
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I have read that Johnson said his head was ringing the next day.
     
  13. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Im one of the biggest Johnson fans here

    According to his own words, Choynski was the first man to send him to "dreamland".


    End of story
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Not really.
    "Soon thereafter,I took on Joe Choynski, who was attracting national attention,and who ,though he had gained no championships,had fought some hard men.
    The fight resulted disastrously for both of us .I lost the fight in three rounds,because it was stopped by the police"
    Jack Johnson " In The Ring & Out".
     
  15. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The wording is significantly different, though. "Just as JJ went to the floor" and "had scarcely been KO'd before" the police entered provide two very different versions.