is cain strong enough to wrestle/grapple with brock?

Clearly the answer is yes. He placed 4rth and 5th in the country NCAA Div 1 freestyle wrestling. At heavyweight where he would have been grappling guys of Brocks size.

 

Don't use the Carwin figth as your only barometer... Remember, Lesnar was "coming back" in a sense, it was his return to the cage after hsi illness and a long layofff. He looks GREAT in training right now, watching UFC Primetime. So does Cain, but Brock looks scary.

 

Given that wrestling is his core style I would say yes. He's been wrestling all his life and he's fought and sparred with guys of all sizes. I'm sure by now he knows how to use speed, stamina, co-ordination in his favour over bigger guys. Brocks size isn't the issue it's the explosiveness, agility and athleticism that he packs with that size.

 

I think Brock is gonna smash his racist face in. I just don't see what all the hype is with this kid. Good wrestling decent punches but I have to say that NOT hurting or KOing Kongo while ground and pounding him for 3 ****in' straight rounds really disturbs me. He can have all those other tkos but NOT KOing Kongo like that is a real turn off. I wish JDS got the shot instead.

 

why would he want to wrestle or grapple with Brock? His best bet is to stay on his feet as Lenar has no stand up and is slow as molasses with his punches.

 

You're an expert in that department :good

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198823

 

The decline in Nogs chin is I'd say a bit overstated, its more a case of him being hit with more clean shots as he's slowed down, that hardly ever happened in his peak years in Pride. So while I wouldnt say KOing Nog indicates Cains got a great technical standup game he does clearly have power, none of the shots on Kongo were standing or from any real distance on the ground so its hardly supprizing they failed to finish him.

As far as wrestling goes the common mistake people make with Lesnar is believing he's a great wrestler AND a massive guy when in reality he's a great wrestler partly because he's a massive guy. Lets me honiest Lesnar isnt Karelin or anything close technically, he's a big guy who knows how to use his size.

The other mistake I think people make with Lesnar is believing he's going to plow though people with a takedown in 10 secs. You look back at his amature wrestling and MMA career(besides Heath who lets remember Nog took down at will aswell) and you'll see thats not generally the kind of fighter he is. As an amature wrestler Brock was actually much more about defence, using his size to shut down an opponants offence then waiting for openings.

I see that causing him problems again vs Cain as he's likely to be second best standing yet its unlikely where going to see him push hard for the takedown quickly(I suspect he'd gass if he did ala Lashley). Even if he gets one I think he's going to have problems controling Cain for any lenght of time.

I think it really comes down to how you rate Cain's standup, its powerful but will he be able to land anything while avoiding the takedown? will his defence be good enough to avoid a clumsy bomb from Brock?

 

You think or want him to smash his face in? And what makes him a racist? I think he is just an athlete that takes a lot of pride in his heritage, which Hispanics are known for. I do find it silly that he is being billed as the first "Mexican" to possibly be champ. The guy is Mexican American, born in Cali. JMM, Barrera and Morales are Mexicans, where someone like DLH is Mexican American. Yeah, you too Fernando Vargas, you're a Mexican American :hi:

To answer the question, no he won't be strong enough to fight comfortably on the ground. At this point, I don't see him getting a submission victory there either. Once he is taken down, he must defend, and find a way back to his feet as quickly as possible.

His camp seems to be banking on that Cain's conditioning will start to take over past the 2nd round. I don't think this would happen unless he stuffs every takedown and wears Lesnar out while they are striking. On the ground, Cain will find himself wearing out after a minute underneath Lesnar.

I think Lesnar will have Cain worn out by the 3rd or 4th rounds, finishing him off on the ground with some GnP or tappage.

 

Man I wish you had an idea of what Brown Pride is about. If you want, I can help explain it to you. In short, the term was initially used by people of the Brown Pride Movement, Chicano Movement and followers of Cesar Chavez, MLK, Malcolm X who were against the segregated status of society. Sure they are controversial, but they were about fighting for civil rights. Making it okay to be proud of a heritage which was for the most part disrespected, cast aside and mis-understood. It is the standing up to a society which taught them their culture and ways were underneith their own.

What are the roots of white pride? Do I have to say it's rooted in White Supremacy? This is why man. When people come out with different types of Nordic Pride, or Russian Pride, or English Pride, nobody is offended. I'm all about people repping their culture, it takes some balls to represent because you are accountable to those you are representing. Its the association of the word, and the types of people who dominate its use.

Hey, I wish there could be a general white pride too, but the damn skinheads and neo nazi's are the ones who dominate the use.

For Cain, being his father was a field worker, I think its rather appropriate.

 

Malcolm X was not against segregation, at one point he wanted a separate country for Black Americans.

I doubt very much Cain is racist in any real sense, I don't think he is trying to make any sort of political or social statement with his tattoo.

 

As for if he has the strength, he does if he has the technique, but that is the question we need to ask.

If it becomes a battle of mostly strength, then Brock is going to win that battle all day.

Cain does have enough strength to wrestle with Brock, but only if he has a decent advantage in technique, which I don't think he does.

The real question is going to be "how good is Cain's ground game, can he get up, or at least prevent serious damage?"

 

He is going to want to wrestle with Brock in the sense that when Brock tries to take him down he is going to wrestle to prevent the takedown, wrestling is not just offense; takedowns/wrestling also a part of stand up.

 

I'm wondering where Cain wants to take it. If he wants to stand, then is his wrestling good enough to stuff a few takedowns, force Lesnar to stand where he was very clearly uncomfortable being last fight.

Lesnar's takedown, in the second round didn't indicate anything good to me as far as the type of takedown it was. It looked like crap.

I think this is what Cain has to take advantage of. That, or get lucky enough to get top position on Lesnar. He's shown he can get up to his feet in a jiffy, but he also showed us eh turtles up, basic fetal position when he is hurt.