real deal vs young foreman

His heart would be his undoing - He would have to trade with Foreman at some point and Foreman will be hitting a lot harder than Bowe did.

If not for the Foreman fights Frazier would be regarded as exceptionaly durable

 

Bowe was able to use volume and a huge size advantage to over power Evander over many rounds, and it only worked SOME of the time... Foreman would be landing huge shots and hurting Evander, but he'd be taking shots in the process.. Holyfield had the right style combined with the essential physical attributes to stand up to Foreman in a way that Norton and Frazier couldn't...

" If not for the Foreman fights," Frazier would have retired without ever having the claim to facing a real puncher.... Holyfield has the claim to having faced numerous punchers, surviving them, and even beating some....

 

somewhat older and wiser George knew how to pace himself during his comeback years. A prime foreman would have tried to blast holyfield out an gotten tired. I don't see him stoppin holyfield early, although not impossible! So i'm takin evander to force a late stoppage.

 

Volume was not an issue for Holifield - But someone like Cooper hit hard and badly hurt him -Now Foreman is on another level power and finishing wise to Cooper.
Lewis may of been able to stop Holy, but he boxed safety first.

 

No, Volume is what BEAT Holyfield... Bert Cooper LOST to Holyfield.... You are also continuously pointing to one instance and only a single example, out of a career that saw an iron chin tested on at least a dozen occasions... Durabilty was not the only thing he had either.. The man had the ability to crack in his prime along with precision hitting and good boxing ability to go with a steady work rate and solid recuperative powers... The only thing Foreman had was raw power, and that's the one thing that Holyfield dealt with best....

Holyfield was shot when he fought Lewis... He was 36 years old, had fought in many wars, and hadn't fought much over the previous year... Lewis basically beat the same version of Evander that John Ruiz did.

 

Despite having a different opinion of who would win, I have to agree with you. Holyfield had a great chin, not even Foreman is gonna take him out early. Foreman would need to land consistently over several rounds to take him out.

But I don't believe Holyfield was shot when he fought Lewis. He had been in decline for a while but was far from shot.

 

Shot, may have been an overstated term, but I think most can agree that he was well past it... His punches had lost most of their snap by that point, and his reflexes had dulled.. His workrate in the early to mid rounds was still reasonably high, but as he aged, it faded in the latter half of fights. Take a look at some of his high intensity matches during his 20's against Michael Dokes and Dwight Qawi... The man never stopped throwing, even well beyond the 8th.. I also happen to think that his health issues had a cummulative effect.. In 1994, he suffered from a heart condition and a shoulder injury. He was then inactive for a while, and came back to lose badly to Riddick Bowe.. Those battles also have a commulative effect after a while.... To conclude, I'll recant my statement, that he was "shot" against Lewis, but I maintain that he was far from prime..

 

The whole "Frazier never facing a puncher" is ****.

Jerry Quarry couldn't punch? Manuel Ramos was a big puncher and landed a full power right uppercut which had no effect. Oscar Bonavena? George Chuvalo had 64 knockouts in 73 wins and is a VERY under rated puncher and Joe blew him out.

 

George Benton's plan for Evander wouldn't change much against a prime Foreman It's still "If he hits you...you're the deadest SOB in the cemetary." All over again... Benton had Holyfield fight in a circle never going to the ropes or where George could close distance...If it goes beyond seven, Holyfield would be capable of taking this...But if George hurts him early, well....maybe not.

 

Some gems in this thread.

George Foreman is not immeasurably stronger than Evander, there is absolutely nothing to back this up. Was he strong? Yes, very strong, but not greatly stronger than Evander. Who also happens to have proved his strength against countless big, strong guys. This isn't a wrestling match and even if it was, we really don't know who would get the better of it.

He didn't have a test of strength against Ken Norton, he beat him by good old fashioned hitting him in the head with power punches. ken is not known for being durable against punchers. This doesn't have much bearing on his physical strength.

Holyfield has the heart, chin and ability to weather the inevitable early storm that a young George brings. Maybe Evander gets caught with something very big and gets overwhelmed in the follow up, but it is not hugely likely as he has always shown good recuperative powers and his chin is truly tested.

A lot is made of the Frazier win and rightly so it was a great win, but it needs some perspective. Joe got caught cold and then proceeded to either walk in to or get pushed in to mid range and bombarded with flush punches, he kept getting back up but just couldn't recover in time. It happens. Even so i think Holy's chin is a lot more tested than Frazier's and of course his style is completely different.

The result of their actual fight doesn't have much bearing here, George's style was almost completely different, even his attributes had changed in the intervening period, some actually improving.

More often than not i see George getting tired after his initial onslaught and getting stopped late. He could stop Holy, but i think the former is more likely.

 

A number of posters have suggested Prime Holy would stop prime George.

Again, I'll ask the question that none of them have answered.

IfPrime Holy had his hands full with an 18-years-past-prime Foreman, failing to stop him, how would he stop the 1973 version ?

 

Though I agree with you, Old Foreman and Young Foreman were different fighters.

Young Foreman was stronger, threw more punches, and was much more aggressive, but he was stupid. I mean, a dumb, dumb fighter.

Old Foreman was much more about his jab, his patience, and throwing the right punches at the right times. He became a very smart fighter.

Holyfields results against Old Foreman have zero bearing against 70's Foreman. I look more to his fights with Bowe and Cooper: Where lesser punchers than George found him incredibly easy to hit, and, what is being overlooked, and thats that they found him not that hard to hurt. He was dropped and badly staggered several times in both fights.

 

sorry, i love envander, he was a warrior but no way he would beat a prime george foreman, george by tko in 5 rounds.

 

i agree absolutely:good

 

WELL, YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY **** ABOUT BOXING:rofl:roflatsch