McVey and Mendoza going mental again

Perhaps I am, but you'd think that you should be able to reach a consensus on some issues on this forum. We have a newspaper quote of Jeffries saying he'd rather retire than risk his crown against Johnson or any other black challenger ("when there are no more white men to fight, I'll quit) and the fact that this is exactly what he did. That's probably as close as we will be able to reach certainity about events from that time.

 

I think Jeffries was terrified of losing his title to a black man ,and the
backlash , the white press, and public, would heap upon him.
I don't ,for one moment, think Jeffries was physically afraid of Johnson ,or indeed any man,,but he was mortally afraid of losing the one thing that embodied his whole reason for living, his title,and losing it to a man of colour.

 

Yeah, and Shannon Briggs said Vitali "The Mechanical Monster" Klit hit harder than Foreman and Lewis... Though I think the best Johnson beats the best Jeffries, I take little to no credence in quotes after a fight, especially when coming from the defeated.

 

What credence you place in them is really immaterial ,what IS of paramount importance is that the quote WAS made in the first place,and THAT has been PROVED.

 

"Jack Johnson is rated as possibly the best heavyweight who ever fought."
"He was a master of defence,and ,allmost flawless in all other aspects of pugilism".

CYBERBOXING.

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OWNED !!!!!!!!!

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http://wn.com/Jack_Johnson_(boxer)​

PS.A bit of film for you to peruse, [that means look at ].​

 

I don't disagree.
But that's going off on a tangent.

The quote exists in a contemporary post-fight report. Mendoza tried to spread an idea that it was a "fantasy" quote made up by a pro-Johnson writer years later, tried to smear it as a later historian's lie.
But it's in a newspaper from the time.

I don't even know if Jeffries said it, and if he did it doesn't prove he meant it.
But the source seems as good as any of the other sources and quotes that the historians here work with, and people who attempt to outright SMEAR or deny the existence of certain quotes they don't like deserve to be called up on it.

 

Exactly!

 

From the article Matt posted it seems Johnson was very highly rated already in 1903: "Johnson, so experts declare is a
big, strong, quick and scientific, and if report is to be
believed he can punch harder than a Missouri mule can kick"

As for your theory that Johnson adapted a more aggressive approach after Hart, it seems logical enough but he still looks like a defensive minded counter puncher rather than an agressive fighter in the film we have of him.

 

Mcvey is on fire! I'm talking about the poster mcvey of course; the fighter was rather poor when Johnson beat him and although his physique may have gained him notoriety, his record at that time should not have.

I believe that the Hart-Johnson fight was somewhat close, with Johnson probably outboxing Hart, but never with much conviction or in dominating fashion. Under the rules of that time, it translated into a loss for Johnson and we can't rewrite history by scoring the fight based on modern standards. The latter may sound peculiar given the match is not on film, however, from the reports I've read, it sounds like Johnson landed more punches and controlled most of the fight without pressing the action and because he couldn't overwhelm Hart, he lost the fight.

Whether you consider the chain of events rightful or not, you have to look at it in the scope of that time, and as such, Jeffries had a legit reason not to fight him when Hart beat Johnson.

 

I cannot but agree with you Chris. I bet Jeffries could have kissed Hart,after Marvin got the nod , [deserved or not],against Johnson.

 

Yeah, my opinion was that (1) Jeffries was tiring of the game anyway
and(2) The Hart win give him a credible out, and he took it.

 

I think you have the crux of it there, Matt.

 

I wondered whether I should be annoyed at being addressed in such a manner ,but, knowing Mendoza's well documented problems with the English language, it is entirely possible it is an innnocent spelling mistake.


[If you beleive that, Briggs should have got the nod against Vitali]

 

I don't know whether I should be upset with that or not,given Mendoza's track record at spelling ,it could be an innocent mistake

It appears that Johnson was a very live threat to Jeffries earlier than was previously thought.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_eF1irKErY[/ame]


"Still later, when Jeffries was informed that the $192,066 he made on the fight was far more than he'd ever earned previously, he would say that the beating he took was not worth it. "

The People's Almanac. " Jim Jeffries in his own words"