Cooper ended Holyfield's first prime and made him mental. But he's on good medication now and the halucinations haven't effected his boxing since the Toney fight. I think he hit his second prime in the Oquendo fight...that's when everything finally came together. He may have lost to Valuev at the apex of his abilites but he just won the lineal title from Botha in perhaps the second greatest performance of his career. His greatest performance of course...going the distance with Valuev.
Actually, Schmeling beat him because he analysed videos of Louis´ fights. He said it about both but wanted to be like Dempsey.
If you're a boxing fan... how can you not like Joe Louis? With that said, some people never want to say anything negative about certain fighters even if it's true. Louis had an amazing reign as HW Champ. He won 26 HW World Title Fights in a row before retiring as Champ. He came back in 1950 and lost to Ezzard Charles who had picked up the vacant title by beating Jersey Joe Walcott. 26-1 in HW World Title Fights. Joe Louis beat 6 HW Champs Max Schmeling 1 out of 2, Jack Sharkey, Primo Carnera, Max Baer, Jimmy Braddock, and Jersey Joe Walcott x2. He beat LHW Champs Billy Conn and John Henry Lewis x2. He also beat one of the best fighter to have never won a World Title in Jimmy Bivins. He was 22 when he lost to Max Schmeling, he did not lose again until he was 36 (although most felt he lost to Walcott in their first fight, age 33). Holyfield was already 28 years old when he won the HW World Title. He had gone 18-0 (14) as a CW and 6-0 (5) in CW World Title Fights. He beat CW Champs Tyrone Booze, Dwight Qawi x2, Ricky Parkey, Ossie Ocasio, and Carlos DeLeon. He moved up to HW and went 6-0 (6) before winning the HW World Title. He did not lose until he was 30. At that point he was 28-0 (22) overall and 10-0 (7) in World Title Fights. Evander Holyfield beat HW Champs Pinkln Thomas, Michael Dokes, Buster Douglas (Lineal), George Foreman (Lineal), Larry Holmes (Lineal), Riddick Bowe (Lineal) 1 out of 3, Michael Moorer (Lineal) 1 out of 2, Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson (Lineal) x2, John Ruiz 1 win, 1 loss, and 1 draw, Hasim Rahman (Lineal). He beat 7 "Lineal" HW Champs, that's more than anybody else. Holyfield is still fighting at a pretty high level at age 48. He has gone just 15-10-2 (6) after age 30 but some of the losses were close, some were even questionable. More times than not he puts up a very good fight even when he loses.
Prime Louis and Prime Holyfield are similar in height and reach. Holyfield is slightly taller and has a slightly longer reach. Holyfield is also slightly heavier... 5-10Lbs. Punching Power? Louis Holyfield could bang and he had to do it vs. big, athletic, and durable fighters for the most part. Louis was more of a KO puncher though. Strength? Holyfield Louis was a strong man very few HWs were as strong as Holyfield. Holyfield gets the nod here. Hand Speed? Holyfield Louis had quick hands but Holyfield was quicker. Footwork? Holyfield Louis could cut the ring off well but his footwork was not his strongest point. Holyfield had better footwork and quicker footwork. Chin? Holyfield Louis was down several times but usually got up to win. He was down vs. Schmeling x2 in their first fight, Braddock, Galento, Buddy Baer, Jersey Joe Walcott x3 in their 2 fights, and Marciano x2. I may have missed one or two? Holyfield was down vs. Cooper (ropes kept him up), Bowe x3 (1st fight- hit in the back of the head just above the spine, ropes kept him up, age 30... Their 3rd fight- he was down twice, age 33), Ruiz (2nd fight, age 38 1/2), and Toney (age 41). Stamina, Heart, Overall Skill? They both had plenty... I will say that Louis was a more accurate puncher when the fighters were close. He had very nice short, hard, and accurate punches at close range.
I see Holyfield's point about modern athleticism,but,out of that era,Joe Louis was an exception to the rule. He was phenomenally fast for the heavyweights of time. As fast as Evander was.
Holy's style does remind me of dempseys...in some ways more then tyson. As for holys comments...well his in the ring IQ was always high..but in every other way, well not the brightest bulb.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dGf4YdiNgQ&feature=related[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1BwfSOuw_c&feature=related[/ame] Look at the end of the first video, beginning of the 2nd. "Hard to see anyone beating him with his mindset, even muhammad ali. Unbelievable punching, accuracy was nuts. Keen instinct of boxing, so brilliant. Even when he's in trouble, cool, collected" Strongly disagree, Louis' hand speed is incredible especially when you look at his combinations. I'd say its near tops of the division next to Ali, Tyson, and Dempsey.
Louis footwork leaved something to be desired,beyond that he was fast..and the best combination puncher ever. Its funny how he says "they say he had 25 title defenses..." Like maybe he actually didn't...lol...just dumb. As for the athleticm...true..but boxing is about more then that...if athletism was all you needed..then how do you explain joe fraizers terrible performace when matched against other athletes.... One other thing I found funny was in the interview...it calls Burt Cooper "Sir Burt Cooper...". Lol, I think they mixed him up with henry... Hmmm I'm gonna make that thread...
I can see his point about film. To me, the old timers never look as impressive on video tape as the modern greats do on film, save for Ali and Frazier. But to me, it is quite clear that being in the ring with them would be way different than watching them, and Louis probably beats Holyfield head to head with shorter, sneakier, quicker, heavier shots.
yes, either Ali or Louis, he mentions as no1 in different interviews. like one time he said "as long as there is a joe louis i will never be no1." but hes mentioned ali as no1 at different times, guess they could both be up there for no1 as Tyson thought.
Louis' hands were fast as hell. I give him the nod over Holy easily, especially when throwing short combos.
This would be a very interesting match-up for me. As for Louis, I think his weakest point is when pursuing mobile fighters. With that said, a past prime Louis defeated Walcott, one of the most mobile and slippery HWs of all time. So it's all relative, really.