The Theory of "Modern Training Methods" Being Superior

Part of the reason that post is so frustrated is that the article i posted about the potential for weights and strength training in a fighter's routine got ignored completely. Really, it's good stuff. It strikes a middle ground between a bunch of the viewpoints in this topic. Strength training with weights CAN be beneficial to a fighter's training routine, when designed properly. But that same article also admits that calisthenics and strongman work can produce similar results.

It also shows the difference in training for different KINDS of strength, which is certainly relevant to the discussion. I find this whole strength training debate to be silly anyway since fighters should be spending more time training for speed, endurance, and sports-specific skill. And you see the best fighters doing that. Look at Pacquiao's workouts in baguio, he does some calisthenics and isometric drills with ariza, spars and does rounds of spar, bag and pad work, and then cross trains in basketball for fun. How is that so absurdly different or more effective than other fighters routines in the past?


I'm not saying sports science is irrelevant to boxing or to the discussion. Supplements/Nutrition and greater understanding of CNS and muscular interaction will always be relevant to athletic development. My point is that those advances are not making for specifically better boxers or boxing. With greater emphasis on conditioning we have seen a drop in sports-specific teaching(skills, strategy) and endurance training. That's why the klits can 1-2 their opponents in the face for 12 rounds and their opponent can't figure out what to do. That's why David Haye gasses in the first 3 rounds throwing haymakers and then drops his WR to something pathetic. It's why Chad Dawson backs people up to the ropes with 7-punch combinations and then starts daydreaming about tits and weed.

 

You´ve got a fan here. :good

 

I've read it now. Very interesting.:good

 

Maintaining speed and endurance while bulking is definitely difficult. A clean bulk is a ***** to get right, Holyfield is one of the best examples i've seen(lol PEDS) and even Pacquiao and Adamek recently have managed to do a solid job but look at all the other versions of bulked up fighters that just look awful, chambers being a great example. He'd probably be a solid CW. Haye at heavyweight is largely unimpressive despite having gained what looks to be mostly muscly bulk.

I think this is part of the reason why Heavies in the past trained down, and lighter fighters moving up divisions didn't really try and bulk up that much. They were willing to sacrifice weight for dexterity, speed, and endurance. And it certainly worked for them, right?

It's all a matter of perspective. There are plenty of different ways to achieve athletic goals. Just because our understanding of strength and physiology is greater doesn't mean that it's being applied to it's full extent in sports. It also doesn't mean that athletes and persons from previous eras didn't have very developed strength and speed. Athleticism and raw physicality are only one part of the game anyway. Fitzsimmons would burn the **** out of Corbett in sprints. But who was faster in the ring? And who applied it better?

 

I can just add that my own (short) experience of supplements is very positive. I used one supplement (Synerlin) to lose weight and one (Whey) to recuperate quicker between training sessions. Both worked very well.

 

No we are not talking about 2 seperate things, the weight exercises are far more geared to explosive than old school resistance exercises like chins/press ups (weight training via bodyweight). They use near to 90% of the muscles in the body and have the highest power/second rating of any exercise.

The movements of these exercises themselves almost mimick punches, ie the leg split under a jerk is very similar to sitting down explosively on a punch

I don't know the specifics of Jones weight programe, I don't know if he even married the 2 at all, all I know is his weight cutting was done all wrong so I doubt he had too many specialists aiding his bulking.

What I do know is he mastered the right exercises and improved in them he would have been more explosive. You state Jones couldn't have been quicker at 168, your wrong he could have been. Mayweather could be much faster/explosive today with the right conditioner/nutritionist working with him and his families lack of understanding of this science is why I suspect they are accusing Pacquaio

 

Modern training methods may improve athleticism, but athleticism is just one aspect of boxing. Old school fighters were, generally, more skilled. And tougher. But not as athletic per se. Why do so many modern top boxers have trouble making weight, or, when they're HWs, not able to get in shape?

 

As is my own. I'm currently using a whey/dextrose/maltodextrine/creatine monohydrate PWO solution with a daily multi and it's been pretty effective considering how little ive been able to work out during this semester. Recovery is one of the best things about supplements. A lot easier to just drink your macros instead of eating a ton of meals/day.

 

Haye won't do any roadwork, maximising VO2 via roadwork is paramount to boxing conditioning. Thats why Haye fades after 1-2 rounds. However he is very explosive from his weight training and has certainly maintained his speed. Haye focused on powerlifting movements rather than olympic lifts (ironically Olympic lifts generate much more power than 'power lifts'), which would have made him quicker.

 

Yeah. When I get the late evening munchies I just mix some Whey with water and drink it. It's supposed to be at its most effective when you sleep.

 

Everything i've read actually says that stuff is really best for drinking during active hours, from my experience. Most people recommend casein(milk protein) for pre-sleep and late night eating because it stays in your stomach and helps stops catabolism at night. Whey isolate/concentrate is optimized for quick, rapid absorption of protein without all the other stuff you get out of say, a piece of meat. That's why it's the premier component of any PWO solution, it gets into your system ASAP with the right mix of carbs.

That explains a lot, it's actually really hurting his game. Sprints and HIIT can be really useful for gaining VO2 but obviously steady state roadwork is tops in this category. He hasn't looked that explosive per se recently though, i'd blame that on inactivity more than anything