when did chavez start showing signs of deterioration?

I would say after De La Hoya

 

I would say around 92ish...even tho he would put some very nice performance every now and then around that time, but for the most part, he was nothing like around the late 80s (87-89) IMO.

 

No, waaay before that.

 

I would say that even in the Camacho fight he showed signs that he was slowing down. He just didn't seem that fresh to me at the end of the fight like he usually did. Maybe it was a tougher fight than it looked, but he seemed tired. For example, JCC vs Mayweather II seemed to be a tougher fight and he looked fresh at the end. Against Camacho he started strong, but at seemed to decline in the later rounds. I would bet that Camacho wouldn't agree with me, though. :yep

 

Noticeably declined after the Taylor fight. He was still a P4P fighter, but he simply was never the same after that night. It took the edge off every facet of his skillset

 

either your oscar himself or puerto rican....

 

He obviously did more work in the Camacho fight than in the Mayweather fight though. Check out the difference in punch output between the two fights.

I think he dropped a gear when he moved up to 140, but he pretty much kept the same level at 140 from 1989-1993 imo. There were some fights he would try and do more coasting against runners, e.g. Lonnie Smith that he wouldn't do at 135, but he could still put a beat down on when he was motivated (Camacho, Haugen etc.)

After Whitaker beat him he dropped from the level of a great to merely a very good fighter. A lot of it was to do with motivation more than deterioration though. What really deteriorated was his 'resolve'.

 

Nah, he's just an ignorant newbi who also probably thinks Clubber Lang was robbed against Rocky in their rematch.

 

I think he looked worse against Taylor than he did against Camacho though. Different level of opposition of course, but Chavez didn't fight a really good fight against Taylor imo. Started too slow, fought too conservatively early etc.

 

Of course, Taylor's hand speed was incredible and would have made pretty much everyone at 140 look bad that night. And actually, it was Taylor who had and executed a terrible fight plan. His hand and foot speed could have carried him to a wide UD, but the Philly fighter in him would have none of it. He wanted to beat Chavez at his own game, and it cost him dearly in every imaginable way.

Camacho on the other hand RAN a lot in the first 5-6 rounds until Chavez' body shots wore him down and made him stand and fight. Chavez just methodically cut the ring off and gave Camacho a brutal beating.

 

According to Daniel Zarragosa, a once fine champion and now trainer......Chavez' decline began right after his destruction of Hector Camacho.

.....after the Camacho fight, Chavez was treated like royalty in Mexico.
When Chavez arrived to Mexico from the US after beating Camacho, the president of Mexico had a limo waiting for Chavez at the airport.
That limo escorted Chavez through the streets of Mexico in parade fashion all the way to the Mexican version of the White House to have the president give Chavez the keys to the country.......
No other Mexican athlete ever or since has had that treatment from the president of Mexico.
It was one big party.

.....according to Zarragosa who tells of this story in a spanish documentary of Chavez....that was the end of the great Julio Cesar Chavez as we knew him.....
"After that, the hunger and the immense dicipline that Chavez had always submitted himself too were not the same."

I agree with Zarragosa. The Camacho fight was Chavez at his hungriest, and after that it was said Chavez was more concerned with Partying and this led to him taking shortcuts in training.

 

True, but the reason I think the Mayweather II fight was tougher was because of all the holding, pushing, and punching JCC had to do in that fight. That would take a lot more energy than simply punching another fighter for 12 rounds. Chavez didn't have to worry about Camacho holding and wrestling for the 12 rounds.

 

Did you guys time travel past the Haugen massacre?

 

Camacho did plenty of holding (on for dear life) against Chavez.

Chavez did expend a lot of energy tracking Mayweather down though, and he had to take a few good shots along the way, which weren't coming back from Hector.