UFC 121 discussion thread *spoilers*

Agree'd JDS is more well rounded than Kongo and will provide a much tougher test than Kongo did in terms of wrestling / grappling !!!

But ultimatley his wrestling is not on the level of Velasquez , that is not up for debate , that is a fact , then you couple that with the fact Velasquez has a strong stand up arsenal himself ..............

I dont see JDS submitting Velasquez off his back and i dont see anyway JDS maintanis a top position on Cain either , this fight will be live for all of 2 minutes until Velasquez secures a TD , from then its all she wrote , Velasquez is a different fighter to one we have ever seen in MMA , a special athlete and Dos Santos does not posess the skill set to beat him IMO .............. no one does !!! :deal

 

You conveniently forgot to talk about Fedor or Overeem, cockrider.

 

JDS is not a wrestler so of course his wrestling isnt as good. His takedown defense and striking ads excellent though. Cain demolished Brock and nog on the ground after rocking them on their feet. I don't think he will outstrike JDS, if he takes Jim down he'll try and do what he did to Rothwell, but I think JDS gets up easier than that.

 

Common mis perception .....................

You cannot mistake TD defence with pure wrestling ability , TD defence for one of a better word is wrestling , its all part and parcel of being a good wrestler , hence nobody could TD Chuck Liddell because he was an outstanding wrestler , Dos Santos cannot stop a TD from Velasquez , he cannot learn that fighting art in 3 , 6 , or 12 months , this is a discipline Velasquez has been doing since he was a boy and one JDS has been doing since he became an MMA figher , HUGE DIFFERENCE !!! :deal

And yes your right BTW , i do see this fight playing out like the Cain Rothwell fight , but i think JDS has more in the tank , and has a much better JJ game than Rothwell , ultimatley he's a much better fighter than Rothwell , but its only gonna buy him time , eventually Velasquez will eliminate the threat on the feet by dominating the grappling element , once that happens it will end the way all Velasquez's fights end ..........

Maybe im understimating Dos Santos a little , but i remember watching him against Roy Nelson and it was a kick boxing match , Dos Santos was returning to his default discipline naturally , he was stood in a stand up stance with his front leg way too forward , not even considering the wrestling element , this i beleive once he gets tired is what he will do against Cain , and if he does ............................

Exactly !!!

 

He had no takedown to fear against Nelson, he's not an idiot, he will adapt his plan to suit. Cro Cop never wrestled either but still has better takedown defence than most wrestlers.

 

Really ?? like who ??

And could Cro Cop stop a TD from , Velasquez , Carwin or Lesnar ??

As in real authentic wrestlers , i think not !!!

 

He stopped them from a peak Mark Coleman.

 

Great mother of God !!!!!

And just how much has the sport and the fighters / athletes developed since the days of Mark " The Hammer " Coleman !!!!

Were done ..........................

 

Mark Coleman was a world class wrestler. More decorated than Cain.

 

Thewinfella is Cains' girlfriend, you'll never convince him Cain is not the second coming of Christ.

 

Those fights definitely did not disappoint.. found a great recap article of them.. http://www.msg.com/sports/fight-club/ufc-121-lives-up-to-the-hype-1.52848

 

Sprawling and avoiding the clinch are absolutely parts of wrestling but I think if you are focused on merely these aspects of wrestling in MMA you could improve faster than if you were trying to become a complete non-MMA wrestler.

I mean, you can learn to throw Muy Thai style low kicks as a boxer without ever mastering the Thai Clinch and that would represent a good skill to have in MMA without making you a "Muy Thai" fighter. It makes sense to me that you could get a good sprawl and good clinch defense in MMA without having to be a quality "wrestler" as in one who can perform well in a wrestling match.

There are a bunch of guys on the forum who really know their wrestling. It's true that you could develop a good takedown defense without necessary developing the whole that encompasses wrestling, right? Crocop immediately comes to mind.