Jack Dempsey vs Bob Foster

yes guys, the heavy who most boxing writers in the 50s thought was the greatest pound for pound ever would get knocked out by bert cooper?

I don't understand why exactly that when it comes to jack dempsey all attempts at objectivity go out the ****ing window. What is it? Is it his haircut? I know it's certainly not just because of his era because guys like Johnson, Leonard, Tunney, Greb, and Langford are rated very highly. Is it because he didn't fight Wills? Why is any perception of manassa jack either that of an unskilled cherrypicking puncher, or an all around boxing god? Can there be no middle ground? It's almost sad, because we can't even have a good discussion about his skillset, fights, or opponents without this ******ation.

 

prime for prime Jack would whoop Frazier's ass.

 

d, i agree with you..Demposey who though 187-195 pounds, had the upper torso of a 200 pound fighter...From the waist up he was big with powerful shoulders and back muscles...He had the legs of a ballet dancer
which accounts for his deceptive weight. He would bob and weave his way under and into skinny Bob Foster and pilverize him in the body.rough him up and weaken LT Heavy Foster and ko him...
Tommy Gibbons was a great fighter who in 106 fights was kod only once
in his LAST bout against Tunney,at the age of 34.He lasted 15 rds against Dempsey by defensive means and a good deal of holding...
Speaking of Gibbons D, I saw on youtube awhile back a rare film of Tommy Gibbons flatten a Jack Bloomfield of England.What a powerful puncher he was....It should be again shown on youtube so ESB would be better to evaluate Tommy Gibbons and Jack Dempsey.
One last point..While on vacation at the Concord Hotel in Sullivan County in 1974, I met Jorge Ahumada of Argentina who was training fot his fight with Bob Foster..They fought at 174 pounds and after 15 rounds the fight was declared a draw....
Some people say that Georges Carpentier hurt Dempsey with a right hand and lasted 4 rounds with the Manassa Mauler. So what ? Tex Rickard the promoter was worried that Dempsey would possibly ko Carpentier early,
and hurt Georges and told Jack to ease up for a couple of rounds for the
crowd of 80,00 people..It is true Carpentier hurt Jackj with a right hand, but Carpentier was a great right hand puncher ,who kod heavyweights
Beckett, Billy Wells in short order with his laser right hand.
Dempsey/Bob Foster.? If the match would have been approved, Dempsey
by ko, in short order...Way too big and strong...

 

The last fights were 10 rounds. I agree with the rest though.

 

No, its actually very simple. Its because we have footage of him fighting and he looks like absolute dog****, at this level. We have footage of other fighters from the same period and they too look like absolute dog****. If you want to say 'for their time' they were greater, then fine. But they do not matchup H2H.

I am not agenda driven. If i saw a clip from 1920 of a fighter displaying better skills, attributes and techniques than those of Joe Frazier, then i would gladly admit to what i saw. You guys on the other hand are clearly agenda driven. You twist things. Someone is going to come in here and say that Ali called Tunney a boxing master whom he copied, when in reality all he said was that his movement was more modern like his, compared to the norm in that primitive era. Then bodhi is going to come in and claim that Tyson said he tries to emulate the masterful skillset of Dempsey and wished to be as ood as him, when in reality all he said was that he wanted an aggressive style.

You are one of the worst ones for this bull****, Swarmer.

 

I need to start using emoticons to express sarcasm. Some guys went ape**** at me in a Rigondeaux thread not too long ago because of that.

 

I like your attempt at comedy. It´s still quite flawed but you got a smile out of me. If you work on it you can do it!

 

**** you. The whole problem you have with looking at footage of old films is that you don't take the time(or you just aren't paying attention enough) to analyze them. You never, ever take the time to break something down and actually point out what you're seeing. Nor do you acknowledge the gap in quality and technology of footage(cut frames, etc) that hurt said footage. Maybe if you actually took the time to watch more old films, read the manuals from the time, and paid attention you would see it for yourself.

The sad thing about this is that I don't even enjoy these cross era comparisons. Due to changes in the rules, skills, and the times I don't even think H2H matches like this are even worth as much discussion as they get here. I do take issue with guys like you saying fighters looking like dog**** though, that absolutely isn't true and claiming "x would destroy x h2h" the way you do most of the time is completely baseless.

I never said Tunney copied Ali. I do think that Tunney's style is an interesting oldschool comparison to Ali. As for Tyson and Dempsey, i think it is fairly obvious that Tyson idolizes him. Watch the tyson talks about the heavyweight champions special. Look at how similar their styles are. Hell he even modeled his haircut after jack's. For the record i do not think Dempsey has better definitively skills than Joe Frazier. I do think he's tougher, a superior two handed puncher, and fleeter of foot. However, I think Joe has a better job, more consistent and educated pressure, and more consistent head movement throughout his career, as well as arguably better comp.

At least I can argue my point though, you just say derp a derp fighter looks like poop. Shut up.

 

Good post.

Also, while plenty mentions have been made of how Foster fared against HWs, I don't think I've seen anything about Dempsey being well beaten twice by the best LHW he faced (stylewise different from Foster, but so is Terrell and Ali etc from Dempsey), and that he had more trouble even with Carpentier than many here predict he would have with Foster.

 

First off Dempsey weighed about 180 for the Willard fight not the 187 reported ...

I understand the thought that if Dempsey came in like a wild madman like he did against Firpo and got hit fresh with the same hook that took out Tiger and Quarry that Foster could win .. that sort of lightning could strike , maybe one times out of six or seven. maybe .. far more likely is that Dempsey, who was the harder hitter with either hand, the faster man and the man with the better chin , would likely catch him fast and put him out within two ...

 

Are you a fan of Jack, he grant?

 

i agree with you..Dempsey with the aid of crafty jack Kearns would have a different fight plan with bob Foster than with the slower ponderous Firpo..
Aside from the hand cranked film of Dempsey, not in full sync though , we today ninety
years later must take the opinions from Sam Langford ,who call,ed Jack Dempsey the greatest heavyweight he had ever seen til then, to tunney, Jack Sharkey,Ray Arcel,and so many other boxers and writers,who saw Jack Dempsey in his PRIME,and extolled his
greatness...
Many, many years ago I saw a film in full size, in a theatre. The film on boxing was called
"Kings Of The Ring ".There is a clip of Dempsey in close [Clinching]with Luis Angel Firpo
and Dempsey's left hand is free ,from the bullish Firpo and Jack is shooting left hook
uppercuts ,so fast and powereful, with no apparent space for power leverage, into
Firpo, that no heavyweight who ever lived has done...Awesome...Check it out on youtube if it is still available..Just before the knockout..Dempsey had that fast twitching muscularity,as Roberto Duran had many years later...They were kindred
souls in many ways...Dempsey was unique at his prime. Vicious two handed power,
with Welterweight speed and a bobbing and weaving style ,chin tucked in his shoulder,
making for a tough task for any heavyweight EVER to beat in his prime...

 

As far as I can tell, no.

There were stories about him hiding weights in his trunks to increase his weight but I am skeptical. His reported weight for this fight was prety consistent with his other reported weights over this period.

 

The photo of Dempsey that you have posted is definitely one of a soft, past his prime fighter probably around the time of the Tunney fights. The pictures I have seen of the Jack Dempsey that clobbered Jess Willard in 1919 show a hard as nails, hungry, and yes a ripped fighter. That fighter would knock Foster into tomorrow rather quickly and probably most of the other heavyweight greats along with him.

 

The fact that you agreed to that sarcastic bs just proves how much of a ****ing troll you really are. **** off, Foreman Hook.