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Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by paulfv, Oct 25, 2010.

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PBFred Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Jack said: ↑

The reason USADA didn't test within the last 7 days, is the same reason why Pacquiao doesn't need to. It's irrelevant and USADA know that.
Click to expand...

Sounds legit to me. The reason why this whole 7 day thing is being discussed though is because previous information out of team Pacquiao is that they agreed to all testing without a cutoff date, which is not true.

What if Mayweather went to the media saying he agreed to 8 oz gloves only for it to leak about months later that he would only agree to 10 oz gloves? Mayweather would be crucified here and for good reason.

I think the whole testing thing is bull**** and hopefully the legal problems faced by Mayweather + a great performance from Pacquiao on 11/13 make the negotiations easier starting on 11/14. I'm hopeful that this will be the case.

PBFred, Oct 25, 2010

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NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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:bbb:bbb

paulfv said: ↑

Since it has come out in the first Pacquiao vs Margarito 24/7 that Team Pacquiao agreed to a 7-day cut-off for the blood testing and not a "0-day" cutoff for blood testing, some writers and posters who should know better have been trumpeting this "discovery" as some kind of vindication of their private conspiracy theories or are simply using the new information to continue to smear Manny Pacquiao and/or give credence to Floyd Mayweather's 2-time ducking of the Filipino pound-for-pound king.

Let's put a stop to this nonsense.

Many on here probably don't know a PED -- or how PED testing works -- from their own backside, and thus have no idea what they're talking about with regards to this issue. In fact, this is what Floyd Mayweather seems to be relying on in his manic desire to avoid fighting Pacquiao: The ignorance of the boxing public.

As most know, Floyd was advised both by his own medical expert(s) in the first round of negotiations as well as his team to agree to the 14-day (or was it 21 days?) window supposedly agreed on by Team Pacquiao in order to make the fight. Floyd refused, and the fight did not get made.

After ducking Pacquiao the first time, Mayweather then said that was the last time Pac would get the 14-day window offer. So what did Team Pacquiao do during the next round of negotiations (which Floyd apparently flat-out lied about and said never took place)?

He agreed to a 7-day window in order to get the fight with Mayweather made. That is, he budged. He compromised, agreed to stipulations to satisfy wild conspiracy theories that almost no other fighter in the sport has had to deal with. But he did it anyways. And what happened?

Floyd went on vacation and allegedly beat up his baby momma.

Now, let's turn to the 7-days vs 0-days issue, itself.

My own experience with PEDs comes from having been a powerlifter in my past (never used PEDs but knew many who did) as well as having a former world-class powerlifter as a brother who worked with some of the top nutritional supplement experts from around the world in several business ventures and his own competitive training.

Couple of things, then:

* You cannot run any kind of steroid, HGH or other muscle-building program in 7 days.

This should be obvious to anyone with even a slight knowledge of working out. That is, you're not making any meaningful gains in 7 days. Particularly as you lead up to a fight in which you have to be fresh heading into the ring (vs doing hard muscle building work the last week before a fight) and when you are going to be tested right after the fight. You're literally talking here, at best, like a 4-day window to get any kind of steroid/HGH/etc "gains." If you think this is at all meaningful, you don't know anything about PED's or training, and I have a bridge to sell you located in Manhattan.

* The only possible, meaningful PED's you could hope to use in a 7-day window would be things like amphetamines or other 'day-of' boosters

What I'm talking about here are things like Major League Baseball "greenies" or whatever Panama Lewis put in Aaron Pryor's drink bottle. That is, some kind of same-day drug that increases your immunity to pain (like the injections which Floyd supposedly used on his fragile hands in training), heightens your nervous system alertness, etc.

One problem with this, though: You have to take a post-fight drug test and you will be caught if you try this. Unless, of course, you're a know-nothing or conspiracy theorist who somehow, someway, thinks that Pac has some "magic pill" amphetamine he can take for like 4 days before the fight that will -- voila! -- give him supernatural powers come fight night but yet not show up on a drug test.

That pill doesn't exist.

Or, perhaps you think Pacquiao has gotten into untestable gene therapy. Yeah, that's it; that's the ticket. I think Pac got the latest techniques on gene therapy when the UFO flew over New York City last week or whatever.

Or, if you understand PED's and training, and how the PR game is played, you might come to the conclusion that Team Mayweather did their homework, realized that Pacquiao blamed his first loss to Eric Morales on a blood test he took beforehand and thus Team Mayweather understood that they could play a public relations game and both duck Pacquiao and pretend they were doing so on principle, to help "clean up the sport," of course, not for any personal reasons (beating up baby momma allegations notwithstanding in terms of "cleaning up the sport," of course).

This is where some noted authors on the sport are at: Conspiracy-Theory Land or Ignoranceville. They think you're dumb, or they are ignorant themselves on how PED's and testing works. Even Victor Conte, who first tried to defend Mayweather's refusal to accept the 14-day window, has come clean on how irrelevant this time period is. And that was 14 days.

And so we're left with supposed boxing "experts" trying to make a distinction without a difference. That is, if you agree to a 7-day cutoff on blood testing, you are, in effect, conceding to a 0-day cutoff. Anything in your blood for 3-5 days before the fight is almost certainly going to be caught on the fight night drug test. You can't build relevant muscle in 7 days, especially as you go into the "cool down/recover" phase before a prize fight. If you try to sneak amphetamines or EPO in on fight night, you'll be caught, not to mention your body won't be used to it because you're introducing it so late in your training phase.

Did Team Pac "lie" about the 0-day agreement? It seems they did. Does it matter? No, not in terms of how it affects either negotiations or performance on fight night.

Floyd still doesn't or didn't want the fight. Maybe that will change one day, or maybe, as Pac suggested in comparing Floyd's achievements to his own in the first 24/7 for the Margarito bout, he just doesn't care to chase a 2-time ducker anymore and Pac will simply move on from Floyd. As Pacquiao said, he feels he no longer "needs" Floyd for his legacy and that would seem to be correct, particularly as Pacquiao is chasing a title in a record-extending 8th weight division.

If any writer tries to make a point on this "7-Day" issue, understand they have an agenda. And the agenda is not "the truth," it is to try to diminish Pacquiao and likely raise up or protect a man who twice dodged Pacquiao. This is unfortunate, but their ruse only works if you're stupid enough to let them con you with their words and misguided concepts.

Be smart.
Click to expand...

Last edited by paulfv; Today at 11:03 AM.

NALLEGE, Oct 25, 2010

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sdsfinest22 Pound 4 Pound Full Member

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Pretty much what im saying *******s is stop trying and take your loss on this one...

He lied...u can "discredit" the sources (*******s never provide sources anyways so they shouldn't question mine), u can say what you want...but they lied

sdsfinest22, Oct 25, 2010

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shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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sdsfinest22 said: ↑

Pretty much what im saying *******s is stop trying and take your loss on this one...

He lied...u can "discredit" the sources (*******s never provide sources anyways so they shouldn't question mine), u can say what you want...but they lied
Click to expand...

Again I ask - was Roger lying when he said Pacquiao was on A-Side Meth?

shaunster101, Oct 25, 2010

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igotJUIC3 Boxing Junkie banned

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first he COULDNT do the test PERIOD

Then he could do 30 days

Then he could do 24 days

Then he COULDNT do 14 days

Then he could do 7 days...

WTF!!

I dont know what to think anymore shyts outta control. Just dont understand why he doesnt just do it random and MORE THAN LIKELY the test would stop well short of 7 days anyway probaly well short of 14 days too hell it stopped 18 for Mosley well blood testing did.......its just a deterent if he isnt on anything there is nothing to worry about he doesnt need a cut off they won't test for blood the week of the fight anyway, that i am certain of.

igotJUIC3, Oct 25, 2010

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PBFred Boxing Junkie Full Member

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shaunster101 said: ↑

Again I ask - was Roger lying when he said Pacquiao was on A-Side Meth?
Click to expand...

Most likely he was.

Now I ask you, were Pacquiao and Arum lying when they said that they agreed to all of Mayweather's demands, including random testing with no cutoff date?

PBFred, Oct 25, 2010

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sdsfinest22 Pound 4 Pound Full Member

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shaunster101 said: ↑

Again I ask - was Roger lying when he said Pacquiao was on A-Side Meth?
Click to expand...

yes he was....CMON NOW..HE WAS BEING SARCASTIC...PAC WAS NOT BEING SARCASTIC WHEN HE SAID HE WAS WILLING TO TAKE THE TESTS UP UNTIL THE DAY OF THE FIGHT..

OR

KONCZ WAS NOT BEING SARCASTIC WHEN HE SAID THEY AGREED TO A 7 DAY WINDOW

NEXT ONE:deal WEAK ARGUMENT..AND HORRIBLE REBUTTAL RIGHT HERE

sdsfinest22, Oct 25, 2010

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sdsfinest22 Pound 4 Pound Full Member

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PBFred said: ↑

Most likely he was.

Now I ask you, were Pacquiao and Arum lying when they said that they agreed to all of Mayweather's demands, including random testing with no cutoff date?
Click to expand...

:rofl

sdsfinest22, Oct 25, 2010

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shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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PBFred said: ↑

Most likely he was.

Now I ask you, were Pacquiao and Arum lying when they said that they agreed to all of Mayweather's demands, including random testing with no cutoff date?
Click to expand...

It would appear so. But I don't care either way, they're all as bad as each other in my book.

I just can't understand why that poster is going crazy about this lie or exagerration when the whole sorry affair is littered with them

shaunster101, Oct 25, 2010

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shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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sdsfinest22 said: ↑

yes he was....CMON NOW..HE WAS BEING SARCASTIC...PAC WAS NOT BEING SARCASTIC WHEN HE SAID HE WAS WILLING TO TAKE THE TESTS UP UNTIL THE DAY OF THE FIGHT..

OR

KONCZ WAS NOT BEING SARCASTIC WHEN HE SAID THEY AGREED TO A 7 DAY WINDOW

NEXT ONE:deal WEAK ARGUMENT..AND HORRIBLE REBUTTAL RIGHT HERE
Click to expand...

Being sarcastic . Clutching at straws I think.

shaunster101, Oct 25, 2010

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PBFred Boxing Junkie Full Member

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shaunster101 said: ↑

It would appear so. But I don't care either way, they're all as bad as each other in my book.

I just can't understand why that poster is going crazy about this lie or exagerration when the whole sorry affair is littered with them
Click to expand...

Valid.

I think SD's is enjoying going at the little girls who have been running around here for months talking about Mayweather's vacation and how Pac the warrior agreed to all of Mayweather's demands.

Anyway, I'm done with it. Too many good fights coming up to worry about this nonsense.

PBFred, Oct 25, 2010

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shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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PBFred said: ↑

Anyway, I'm done with it. Too many good fights coming up to worry about this nonsense.
Click to expand...

:good

Haye vs Harrison is a peach, eh?

shaunster101, Oct 25, 2010

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sdsfinest22 Pound 4 Pound Full Member

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shaunster101 said: ↑

Being sarcastic . Clutching at straws I think.
Click to expand...

right.....But that rebuttal was still horrible....ROGER SAYING PAC WAS ON A SIDE METH WHEN HE CLEARLY JUST TALKIN **** IS ALOT DIFFERENT FROM PAC TELLING THE MEDIA THAT THEY AGREED TO SAME DAY TESTING OR KONCZ TELLING THE MEDIA THEY AGREED TO 7 DAYS...

SOMEONE IS LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH? FLOYD PUT IT OUT ON PPV WHAT HE WANTED...SAME TESTS AS MOSLEY....THEY CLAIMED THEY AGREED TO THAT..KONCZ JUST CAME OUT AND SAID THEY AGREED TO A "7 DAY CUTOFF"

THATS THE POINT

sdsfinest22, Oct 25, 2010

#43
MrSmall Member Full Member

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paulfv said: ↑

Since it has come out in the first Pacquiao vs Margarito 24/7 that Team Pacquiao agreed to a 7-day cut-off for the blood testing and not a "0-day" cutoff for blood testing, some writers and posters who should know better have been trumpeting this "discovery" as some kind of vindication of their private conspiracy theories or are simply using the new information to continue to smear Manny Pacquiao and/or give credence to Floyd Mayweather's 2-time ducking of the Filipino pound-for-pound king.

Let's put a stop to this nonsense.

Many on here probably don't know a PED -- or how PED testing works -- from their own backside, and thus have no idea what they're talking about with regards to this issue. In fact, this is what Floyd Mayweather seems to be relying on in his manic desire to avoid fighting Pacquiao: The ignorance of the boxing public.

As most know, Floyd was advised both by his own medical expert(s) in the first round of negotiations as well as his team to agree to the 14-day (or was it 21 days?) window supposedly agreed on by Team Pacquiao in order to make the fight. Floyd refused, and the fight did not get made.

After ducking Pacquiao the first time, Mayweather then said that was the last time Pac would get the 14-day window offer. So what did Team Pacquiao do during the next round of negotiations (which Floyd apparently flat-out lied about and said never took place)?

He agreed to a 7-day window in order to get the fight with Mayweather made. That is, he budged. He compromised, agreed to stipulations to satisfy wild conspiracy theories that almost no other fighter in the sport has had to deal with. But he did it anyways. And what happened?

Floyd went on vacation and allegedly beat up his baby momma.

Now, let's turn to the 7-days vs 0-days issue, itself.

My own experience with PEDs comes from having been a powerlifter in my past (never used PEDs but knew many who did) as well as having a former world-class powerlifter as a brother who worked with some of the top nutritional supplement experts from around the world in several business ventures and his own competitive training.

Couple of things, then:

* You cannot run any kind of steroid, HGH or other muscle-building program in 7 days.

This should be obvious to anyone with even a slight knowledge of working out. That is, you're not making any meaningful gains in 7 days. Particularly as you lead up to a fight in which you have to be fresh heading into the ring (vs doing hard muscle building work the last week before a fight) and when you are going to be tested right after the fight. You're literally talking here, at best, like a 4-day window to get any kind of steroid/HGH/etc "gains." If you think this is at all meaningful, you don't know anything about PED's or training, and I have a bridge to sell you located in Manhattan.

* The only possible, meaningful PED's you could hope to use in a 7-day window would be things like amphetamines or other 'day-of' boosters

What I'm talking about here are things like Major League Baseball "greenies" or whatever Panama Lewis put in Aaron Pryor's drink bottle. That is, some kind of same-day drug that increases your immunity to pain (like the injections which Floyd supposedly used on his fragile hands in training), heightens your nervous system alertness, etc.

One problem with this, though: You have to take a post-fight drug test and you will be caught if you try this. Unless, of course, you're a know-nothing or conspiracy theorist who somehow, someway, thinks that Pac has some "magic pill" amphetamine he can take for like 4 days before the fight that will -- voila! -- give him supernatural powers come fight night but yet not show up on a drug test.

That pill doesn't exist.

Or, perhaps you think Pacquiao has gotten into untestable gene therapy. Yeah, that's it; that's the ticket. I think Pac got the latest techniques on gene therapy when the UFO flew over New York City last week or whatever.

Or, if you understand PED's and training, and how the PR game is played, you might come to the conclusion that Team Mayweather did their homework, realized that Pacquiao blamed his first loss to Eric Morales on a blood test he took beforehand and thus Team Mayweather understood that they could play a public relations game and both duck Pacquiao and pretend they were doing so on principle, to help "clean up the sport," of course, not for any personal reasons (beating up baby momma allegations notwithstanding in terms of "cleaning up the sport," of course).

This is where some noted authors on the sport are at: Conspiracy-Theory Land or Ignoranceville. They think you're dumb, or they are ignorant themselves on how PED's and testing works. Even Victor Conte, who first tried to defend Mayweather's refusal to accept the 14-day window, has come clean on how irrelevant this time period is. And that was 14 days.

And so we're left with supposed boxing "experts" trying to make a distinction without a difference. That is, if you agree to a 7-day cutoff on blood testing, you are, in effect, conceding to a 0-day cutoff. Anything in your blood for 3-5 days before the fight is almost certainly going to be caught on the fight night drug test. You can't build relevant muscle in 7 days, especially as you go into the "cool down/recover" phase before a prize fight. If you try to sneak amphetamines or EPO in on fight night, you'll be caught, not to mention your body won't be used to it because you're introducing it so late in your training phase.

Did Team Pac "lie" about the 0-day agreement? It seems they did. Does it matter? No, not in terms of how it affects either negotiations or performance on fight night.

Floyd still doesn't or didn't want the fight. Maybe that will change one day, or maybe, as Pac suggested in comparing Floyd's achievements to his own in the first 24/7 for the Margarito bout, he just doesn't care to chase a 2-time ducker anymore and Pac will simply move on from Floyd. As Pacquiao said, he feels he no longer "needs" Floyd for his legacy and that would seem to be correct, particularly as Pacquiao is chasing a title in a record-extending 8th weight division.

If any writer tries to make a point on this "7-Day" issue, understand they have an agenda. And the agenda is not "the truth," it is to try to diminish Pacquiao and likely raise up or protect a man who twice dodged Pacquiao. This is unfortunate, but their ruse only works if you're stupid enough to let them con you with their words and misguided concepts.

Be smart.
Click to expand...

Pretty good post buddy, I always find it ridiculous.

MrSmall, Oct 25, 2010

#44
sdsfinest22 Pound 4 Pound Full Member

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yea i guess i beat it up these last 2 1/2 days......and yes i agree..we got some good fights going on the rest of the year...Maidana-Khan, Lopez-Marquez, and Bhop-Pascal looking real nice

sdsfinest22, Oct 25, 2010

#45

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