Prime Tunney Replaces Corbett vs. Jeffries

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by guilalah, Oct 25, 2010.


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  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    [/quote]
    Jeffries fought one man of 200lbs,[Ruhlin] , before he met Johnson in his last fight

    Corbett gave him more than a "little bit of trouble" he was in front after 23rds.
    Sharkey went 20, and 25 rds with Jeffries ,coming forward all the time, Jack Johnson said you "couldn't miss him with a punch", yet he went the distance twice.

    Not so ,Burns had one fight scheduled for 45rds,Fitz none.
    Corbett ,as Champion none and only one [with Jackson] other.

    Jeffries only the one ,with Johnson.

    Johnson had three, one with Jeffries ,one with Flynn ,and one with Willard.
    Maybe they were trying to wear Jack down?
     
    mcvey, Oct 27, 2010
    mcvey, Oct 27, 2010
    #31
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Wrong. As you admitted before, Munroe was 210. Also Kennedy was over 200 lbs in many of his fights.

    Corbett was not in the lead prior to the stoppage. Read a detailed report!

    Sharkey was lucky. Jeffreis was green in the 1st fight, and fought with an injured arm in the second fight. No big deal. He floored Sharkey in both fights and had him hurt in both fights.

    Read the reports, embrace the facts, and you shall learn.

    Tunney was easier to hit than Corbett was.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 27, 2010
    Mendoza, Oct 27, 2010
    #32
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    If you want.
    I dont think so though. Tunney tends to look a lot better in his clearer films than he does in the rougher footage, and even those are far better than Corbett's films. I doubt he'd look much cop in the 1890s quality of film.
    Corbett looks pretty good considering the film, to me at least. All I can really ascertain is that he was quite nimble for a 190 pound man.

    I tend to think your judgement is influenced by a pre-conceived notion on the "evolution of boxing" 1890s - 1920s. But to your credit you've openly stated that as part of your reasoning too.
     
    Unforgiven, Oct 28, 2010
    Unforgiven, Oct 28, 2010
    #33
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Corbett was in front at the time of the stoppage
    Kennedy was not over 200lbs when he met Jeffries
    I now think Munroe was not 210lbs, 9 months prior to his fight with Jeffries he took on Peter Maher ,his weight is given as 190, it seems likely he would be in better shape for Jeffries and a title fight, than a meaningless bout with drunk Maher, not 30lbs heavier.
    You talk about excuses for Johnson ,you have a pocketful for Jeffries.

    "Tunney was easier to hit than Corbett". This is based on?
    Corbett was stopped three times dsq'd in another when in imminent danger of being stopped in his handful of fights .
    Tunney was dropped ONCE in 70 fights, by an alltime great puncher ,and NEVER kod.
     
    mcvey, Oct 28, 2010
    mcvey, Oct 28, 2010
    #34
  5. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thanks for all the discussion!

    I finally voted for Tunney in '00, Jeffries in '03.


    I think Tunney at his best was quite a bit better than Corbett in '00. I don't know would have been better if they'd come along at the same time. I see the film of Corbett sparring Tunney, and Corbett's very impressive for his age. I also see Corbett demonstrating some punches, and there are these long range uppercuts, pulling back before jabbing, ect. They make me think that, in terms of actualized potential, Tunney was technically ahead of Corbett; but Gene was standing on the shoulders of those before him; don't know if he'd been any better than Pompadour if he'd come along at the same time. But I stipulated prime Tunney, so I'm going by how Gene was in his own day; and I think that's better than how Corbett was in '00.

    I think '00 Jeffries was capable of beating prime Tunney; but I don't think he would have, that day (that he first fought Corbett). Just a messed up strategy, and his left is still a bit messed up from the medicine ball incident.

    I like Jim in 1903, even with 5 less rounds.

    --------


    From what I read of the allegations around Corbett-McCoy, discussed in Pollack's 'In the Ring ... Jeffries', I think it's extremely unlikely that Corbett-McCoy was a fix.
     
    guilalah, Oct 28, 2010
    guilalah, Oct 28, 2010
    #35
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think there's plenty up for debate in here...firstly, Dempsey was shot? Dempsey took his career's best scalp between Tunney one and two, and he was more active coming into two than he'd been in years.

    I'm also not convinced that Jeffries had better footspeed than Dempsey at that time, it's certainly not my impression.
     
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2010
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2010
    #36
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    janitor, Oct 28, 2010
    janitor, Oct 28, 2010
    #37
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Then the widely acknowledged shot fighter was made a three to one favourite versus the most highly respected fighter he had ever met.
     
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2010
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2010
    #38
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    janitor, Oct 28, 2010
    janitor, Oct 28, 2010
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think Munroe was around that size too.
     
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2010
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2010
    #40
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Come now you know how this works.

    A fighter is as good as his last fight. Most people didnt know how far Dempsey had slipped untill they saw him in the fight. Most people that is except those who had been inside his camp, and they knew he was going to loose.

    That Dempsey was shot was acepted as much as the same was acepted of Louis, after the Walcott fight.
     
    janitor, Oct 28, 2010
    janitor, Oct 28, 2010
    #41
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I guess we're working with different versions of the word "shot" then. For me, there is no HW that could beat Walcott whilst shot. Shot, for me, means done, ready to be swept up.
     
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2010
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2010
    #42
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    mcvey, Oct 28, 2010
    mcvey, Oct 28, 2010
    #43
  14. heehoo

    heehoo TIMEXICAH! Full Member

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    Tunney wins going away.

    Tunney would be on his toes, sticking and moving for all 15 rounds in both fights. Jeffries doesn't even come close to hurting him.
     
    heehoo, Oct 28, 2010
    heehoo, Oct 28, 2010
    #44
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    mcvey, Oct 28, 2010
    mcvey, Oct 28, 2010
    #45
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