Willie Pep vs Naseem Hamed

Saddler was a great technical boxer?

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see any possible way Hamed can win this. The only thing I might say is that that has the potential to be the messiest, scrappiest fight ever seen. Ever.

 

Hamed KO1

LOL, Pep by wide UD.

 

I don't see this being competitive at all. Pep gets off first everytime against Hamed and that's what undues Hamed. Really, Hamed would probably get frustrated in the second round and start goofing, trying to bait pep to slug it out, but Pep is too smart. Pep would make hamed look silly.

 

If it's a reference to my post, Saddler was bigger, stronger, fought entirely differently to Hamed and did not exactly beat the prime Pep, not to mention he lost nearly every round he wasn't fouling Pep in.

 

Saddler came into those fights with game plans. He trained with Archie Moore and Moore came up with the idea to stay on Pep, and not throw until Pep was relaxed. A tactic used to really throw off Pep's breathing. Saddler was tough, but also was humble enough to take advice and smart enough to carry out the plan for just about every second of those fights.

Hamed was an aweful student of the game (at least oince he gained in popularity), he hired a bunch of yes men and trained however the hell he wanted to. He never had any plans in his fights, it would seem that way at least. He just appeared to wing it everytime out, in hopes that his natural abilities would win it for him.

 

Tasty nugget about Saddler adopting Moore's strategy, NP. But, I knew Sandy, 'n humble wasn't his strong suit.

 

One word answer will do fine.

Was Saddler a technical boxer?

 

jg, maybe his humbleness didn't extend past listening to the legends?

 

How would Hamed 'out-box' Pep exactly?

Hamed for all his speed and explosiveness needed a stable base to launch off from, and as McGrain pointed out was a straight line fighter. Hamed had unorthodox punching angles, though.

Pep would be constantly moving and changing angle, he would take away that base Naz needed to launch from, as Pep just would not be in front of him. The punching angles could cause Pep problems but I genuinely see Pep's shifting of angles to completely off set Naz's attack patterns and cause Hamed to be very hesitant.

Also the Saddler fight almost has nothing to do with this, woeful analogy. Also I don't think Hamed beats Saddler.

Bigger than you.

Same here.

A 16 year old?

I thought you was speaking to me?

Spot on.

Nah an amateur.

He could be hit, in the way that in boxing the guy is trying to punch you and a few will get through. Pep didn't tend to pull away from shots much at all though, he was much more of an angles man and tended to slide away to the side from shots.

The footage we do have of him in his prime, I have watched it and I am fairly certain he does not even get punched in the head once, and we have about 12 minutes of footage. Very impressive!

He also could be shut up offensively by angles and lacked mobility laterally IMO.

He is a class below Pep.

I just don't think Hamed's power is all that. He could hit hard and he would stun Pep is he landed, but it might just throw him off for a minute or so. It's not like it would discombulate him until next Tuesday if he landed.

Mr Pollack respect your opinion, but do you not think Pep's superior finesse, agility and angle-work swing it for him.

Do you not think Hamed was susceptible to angles?

 

:admin Serious?

 

Yes.

 

You do know I'm picking Pep, right? You know I'm picking Pep handily, yeah?

Of course Pep is a level above Hamed, even Spud1 knows that.

As I say, I don't think its out of the question to suggest that Hamed would win a few rounds. Willie could often be simply outworked in some rounds because he was more concerned with avoiding shots than landing his own, and like I said, Hamed has the power to "stun" Pep. Hamed has the power to "disrupt" Pep. Nobody said anything about knocking him clean out. I just want this clarified so you don't repeat yourself. In the event he lands a hard shot, and Hamed was a hard hitter, this could disrupt Pep for a few rounds.

....Elusive...not unhittable.

 

Yes.

Yes

OK, when have you seen or read of Pep being outworked or even coasting enough to lose rounds?

Pep was a very busy fighter, always doing something in a fight and IMO gets sold short offensively as almost everything he was doing was offensively. He glided into new angles, popped out jabs, slid in behind right leads etc... I hate it when Pep gets sold as a back-foot 'runner' when in fact he was almost all offence, or leading.

If anyone is getting outworked it is Hamed who had more history of coasting rounds!

Still it is going to happen rarely IMO, and Pep could more than recover the deficit in the remaining time of the round IMO. But fair enough manny, I'll give you that.

No one is unhittable.

 

When I was making my way through the Willie Pep DVD, which had his fights with Saddler, Chavez, Famechon, among others on it, there were times when I thought Pep missed opportunities to attack. He'd wait on the opponent, and look for the opportunity to counter rather than lead. These were exceptions to the rule, generally Pep was always doing something, whether it be flicking out a jab or throwing a combination, but I've seen lulls in some of his fights, fights that weren't all that competitive, it should be said.

Yup.

Of course, that's exactly what we're talking about here. If Hamed was to land and hurt Pep often, I'd make Hamed the clear winner and by stoppage. I'm just making the point that I don't envision a shutout, I think Hamed has ways to win a few rounds, if not by his power, then because some rounds are going to be such a non event that you could give the rounds to Hamed.

Exactly.