tyson holyfield 1

Excellent post.

 

Reread your posts and see why I'm not going to take you or the other immature kid seriously. You can lie about how much of a boxing fan you are and how long (how many times have I heard that when somebody gets called out on their nonsense?) you've been watching the sport, but it's not going to work. You have no credibility as long as you act like some mma fan from the suburbs. You also failed to respond to any of my arguments, which shows the fact that you are trolling. As far as I'm concernced, this convo is over.

 

Im pretty sure Im as old as you are, and I know what Nascar and MMA are. Where do you live, Mars?

 

I think a lot of people dont understand the importance of living a clean disciplined lifestyle. You cant return to boxing with no trainer, no desire and no discipline, and expect to pickup where you left off, it doesnt work that way.
When Tyson resigned with Don King and announced Jay Bright was his trainer, I never took him seriously. Sure he could still knockdown stiffs, but he wasnt going to have any longevity of success. His comeback was a complete farce, and thats why Tyson resorted to extreme fouls when he faced resistance that he had been able to overcome in the past. In 1988 Tyson would have elbowed or headbutted Holyfield right back and then knocked his ass out.
From biting Holyfield to trying to break Francois Botha's arm, these were all blatant exposures of what his insecurities in the ring had become.

All fighters are insecure or have a fear of losing in some way, but Tyson wasnt mentally weak at his peak. You cant have 9 title defenses and unify three titles being mentally weak, but he became mentally weak, because he knew deep down he wasnt doing the things that a professional was supposed to do to be successful and once his tough guy mystique was shattered, he had nothing to fall back on, because he was a shell of his former self.

 

I have to disagree. Holyfield's phsycial approach would always be troubling for Tyson. Despite winning comfortably on points, he was terribly frustrated by Bonecrusher's wrestling as far back as 87.

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The [url]

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[/url] champ Smith held and grabbed Tyson every time his younger opponent got within punching range.
- Only in the final seconds did Smith open up, rocking Tyson with a big right hand, but it was much too late to make a difference.
- Tyson won widely on the scorecards without enhancing his reputation. ​

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Smith wasnt headbutting Tyson, he was just holding in a fight Tyson was still in control of, theres a difference, Tyson won every round didnt he? Theres no comparison here, only that it proves my point that Tyson didnt resort to cheap fouls when he couldnt knock his opponent out.

 

I don't think the opposition headbutting increases 87/88 Tyson's chances of scoring a knockout. Been a wihle but I do recall a frustrated Tyson getting dirty with Smith....though nothing on the level of ear biting. My point being that Tyson didn't suddenly elbow Smith off and knock him out, I have seen nothing that would suggest he was ever capble of such a feat against a physical spoiler..especially one as effective as 96 Evander.

 

Your taking my post out of context. Maybe Tyson was frustrated because Smith didnt want to fight. Evander would fight Tyson and it wouldnt get in the way of Tyson fighting back the way he could in the past. It would just be part of the fight we would expect from these two at their best, and I think Tyson wins by knockout.
Heres some of the Smith fight.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewHs5oh8qjI[/ame]

 

I don't recall Tyson ever resorting to cheap shots against Douglas. Lewis?yes. McBribe?yes. Danny Williams? I don't remember. With Ruddock I remeber he hit him low but at the same time Ruddock had his trunks high so I don't know if he did it intentionally at first. Eventually he did as Ruddock wasn't scared to fight dirty back. What fights did Tyson intentionally headbutt in? I can't remember him doing that but I'm not saying it's out of his character at all. I could see him doing that but I do know he used elbows and tried to break arms.

 

The Ruddock fights kind of make my point. Ruddock was hitting him low and fouling and Tyson just retailiated right back in the same way and the fight stayed pretty intense. He didnt fall apart and I think the same would have happend with Holy back in the day and Holyfield probably wouldnt have resorted to it as much if Tyson fouled him back. I dont think Tyson fouled Douglas at all that I can recall either.

 

Insightful words!

The reason I respect young Tyson as a true great is because, thanks to a world-class training regimen and his spiritual fellowship with the greatest fighters of all time via film, he --for however a relative short time it ultimately proved to be-- developed his awesome physical skills and young mind into those of a class heavyweight champion capable of destroying any other great, from any other time, with inexorable finality.

Once he lost interest (as early as after Michael Spinks), it all became --more and more so as the years rolled on-- a perhaps lucrative, but certainly wastefully sad, pantomime of what once was.

It is not excuse-making to lay out the truth of Mike Tyson's run: for those in doubt, at his several-year peak, he was one of the best ever. And he can never, ever, be excused for losing focus, giving in to negativity and throwing it all away and later eventually coming up short in his big fights time and time again.

But Mike Tyson in 1988 and 1995 --seven years-- were as different as the excitement of the honeymoon and the unbearable itch of a seven-year marriage.

 

I have the perfect avatar for this conversation. If Holyfield & Tyson fought in 91 I think Tyson would have a better chance to win. I agree that he would fight dirty if he felt he had to and also Holyfield wasn't as big in 91 as he was in 96. I'm not sure if the 91 Holyfield outmuscles Tyson. The fight around that time would've been interesting it's too bad Tyson's problems prevented it from happening sooner.

 

-Tyson was frustrated because he couldn't get his punches off like he wanted to. Smith exploited his shortcomings in the clinch to cut him off whenever he needed to, smother his offense, and survive. Holyfield would certainly fight more than Bonecrusher...but just like in 96, he would pick his spots and do it on his terms not Tyson's. 88 or 96, I've never seen anything from Tyson that suggests he could solve a physical spoiler like this and score a KO. Best case scenario, he goes into move and jab mode like Tucker to outpoint the older Holyfield. But he's going to be held and wrestled everytime he tries to put a knockout combination together.

 

-Several things happened differently in Tyson/Holyfield. Tyson was cut by Evander's foul early and was immediately knocked down by a balance punch he didn't see. He was already losing rounds and became over anxious, only getting himself into bigger trouble.

-Tyson freaked out in the second fight and went ear crazy, because he was cut again early...worse than before, and apparently convinced the fight would unfold the same way.

 

I didnt see any frustration at all in Tyson, only that he wanted Smith to fight more, he still fought pretty well. Smith had never been stopped and only been knocked down in his professional debut, so Im sure Tyson and company were convinced Tyson had to be prepared for a long fight..
I disagree with your assessment of 88 Tyson too, a lot of the fighters he stopped were mobile and just as equipped to do what Smith did. Tyson couldnt knock out everyone.