Joe frazier was better than marciano in everything

I do think that Frazier would have been a bigger problem for more greats than Marciano would have been, but I'm not sure that I agree with the claim that they were leagues apart.

 

Marciano was more dominant that Frazier in his era. He didn't have the competition, but to say Frazier was better than Marciano is not true. Marciano nowadays would not even be a heavyweight, he would be a cruiserweight.

 

I don't. Frazier did not possess the physical strength, durability, nor two fisted power Marciano presented to opponents. I also think Marciano was slightly more ackwardly effective in his crouch than Frazier was with his bob and weave. Frazier certainly had the speed advantage, but speed cannot kill everything.

 

yea to kinda go along with what SuzieQ said...


heres another one combat: Strength.

Marciano was clearly stronger head to toe than Frazier. Marciano, when pressed against his opponents, would force them back. Frazier got in the inside and worked with punches.
Frazier used punches to make his opponent back up while Marciano could use his strength.

 

Erm, I actually might agree. I just think Frazier styles translates better against most opposition than Marciano's. I feel Frazier's foot-speed and pressure are important factors that have him split or even close favorites against the Ali and Holmes types. I feel Marciano struggled more against cute or technical boxers than he did with strong puncher types. I feel Rocky would've out-Bonavenaed Bonavena better than Frazier ever did. I feel Marciano looks better against punchers or slugger types. Even if he losses against Foreman or Tyson I feel he has better odds against that style than Frazier. I actually do pick Marciano to beat Liston... I wouldn't with Frazier.

At the same token, I have Frazier beating both Klitscho brothers. The pressure is too much, and I think he has good agility and elusiveness to make them react and panic. Marciano, against the Klit brothers is interesting but I feel he just gets too out-sized. Even if Marciano is stronger and more powerful than Frazier, he doesn't have the necessary agility and speed to get himself in position and utilize that power against such a tall and powerful fighters like the Klit brothers.

While Marciano gives Ali trouble, I think Ali wins. Holmes vs Marciano is very interesting, but I do think Frazier is a bigger favor regardless of whether Rocky can beat Holmes. Rocky and Frazier versus Lewis is a dead split. Frazier will falter under the pin-point punching I think. Marciano might get in, but would have massive trouble. Here's how I seem to split it

Marciano has better odds in my view than Frazier against

Liston
Tyson
Louis
Dempsey
Foreman
Holyfield (96 version)

Frazier does better against

Holmes
Ali - 50/50
Vitali
Wlad
Holyfield (91 version)
Tunney

Both are about even against

Lewis
Bowe

I probably forgot I few ATGs. The Holyfield thing was completely instinctual. You will realize that I give Rocky better chances against punchers and more immobile fighters while I think Frazier has better odds against boxers. The boxer-punchers are split even between them. Now, while I give Rocky a better chance against the Foreman and Tyson types, I think he loses. I actually fancy Frazier's chance to win the fights where he's more favored than Rocky. At the same time, I predict Rocky to beat someone like Tunney regardless of whether Frazier is a bigger favorite over him than Marciano is. So you have to look at it both ways. In the end though, Frazier generally does better against ATGs.

Just to discern better, the bold = predicted wins. As you see, I have Frazier slightly on top.

 

I think Frazier was too much of a rythm fighter. His movement had a certain rythm in it and thus he could be timed. Marciano didn´t have that kind of rythm. Frazier´s bob and weave is a superior technique compared to Marciano´s crouch but it could be timed when it´s applied with a rythm. Compare Frazier´s bob and weave to Dempsey´s who had no rythm at atll. Even Tyson who was more erratic and used a side to side instead of an up and down movement could be timed. I wouldn´t say Marciano´s defense was better but Frazier´s was easier to figure out.

I don´t think either one will be (T)KOed in a fight either. Both have too good of a chin, heart and stamina. They would destroy each other but I think Marciano´s better viarity in his punches will be the deciding factor. Close decision for him.

 

I think some of the pioneers give him a run for his money here, think ybout Jeanette´s and McVey´s 49 round war in Paris. But of the classic/modern era he certainly is the best here.

 

I agree. I go for and back on this fight, most of the time I think Ali wins. This fight fascinates me more than Marciano-Frazier to be honest. Rocky-Joe would be more exciting but Ali-Marciano is the more interesting fight.

 

Does any one know why a fighter like Rocky gets no love? , he does not look the best on the old film but either does Monzon who gets a lot more love and is rated higher.

Both are at the very top of their division but Monzon get rated higher.

Is it the type of guys that love RJJ's swager and out of this world reflexes, Floyds defence style and SRL lighting flurrys and Ali's ring movment etc... that hate Rocky?

 

I think Rocky is very respected on here. Most rate him somewhere in the Top5 at hw, same with Monzon at mw. But yes, those efficient but not very flamboyant fighters aren´t very liked or respected by certain posters. The ones you described are certainly among them. You get to know them after a while though and take their opinions on certain fighters or eras with a grain of salt.