Essay on Jack Johnson.

Saying that, is there even any evidence that SRR actually did that? From what I understand most of the information came from his son who didn't exactly get on with his father.


Interesting thread though this, some good reading.

 

His wife said he did, and she was there.

 

When Johnson beat Jeffries, thousands of blacks turned out to celebrate ,he may have been unpopular with whites ,but the vast majority of blacks loved him, because he dared to do ,what they could only dream of doing.
Harry Wills would never be an impartial source, regarding Johnson ,Wills was sacked by Johnson as a sparring partner ,because he could not handle it,and Johnson allways referrred to him as "just a fair fighter", so there would be more than an element of, "pay back" ,in his comments .imo.

 

I know Johnson did many bad things, but I'm curious to read about them again.

I dont have Unforgivable Blackness with me, but I'm just asking did Johnson make an official public statement admitting to these? I simply forget, and am curious


Hes not my idol, how can I ever be like, or better yet, relate to Johnson? lol
He was the baddest mofo on the planet though

Ali is my idol

 

I don't know that Harry Wills can be so readily dismissed. In all honesty I haven't researched him as thoroughly as others of his era, but from what I have gathered he was a genteel, classy man, not prone to vindictivness or "sour grapes"(these are more Johnson's hallmarks, not Wills). His words are very much in alignment and consistent with what others have said about Jack Johnson. Wills, Jack Blackburn, Sam Langford....all knew Johnson well and all pretty much said the same things about him. You could dismiss Langford's comments as being sour grapes for Johnson not giving him a title shot, but what about Wills and Blackburn? It's all too consistent for me to just dismiss it.

Over the past several months I've read many posts you've written on Johnson. You've obviously done your homework and I commend you for that. But in doing research you must have come across a consistent (there's that word again!) line on Jack regarding his negative traits. There is much firsthand testimony out there of people who had a problem with him on levels other than just racial.

For the sake of balance, what would you say Jack Johnson's negative traits were?

 

The way that Jack Johnson divides opinion on this forum today 100 years on might make one interesting talking point.

 

Jack Johnson ,imo was a walking contradiction, he was capable of extraordinary acts of generosity,and petty acts of vindictive meaness.
He went through several managers, one of whom ,Sam Fitzpatrick , was considered a good guy.
He paid for Sam Mcvey's funeral, gave expensive presents to many women, made a special pilgrimage to Peter Jackson's grave when he was in Australia.
Was ready to use his fists on "noncombatants", and did so several times ,when creditors turned up.
Married the woman he was charged with transporting across the state line for immoral purposes,ran the night Club Cafe De Champion ,[there is no evidence he ever profited from any prostitutes earnings, or lived on immoral earnings] ,in fact he sent money to various whores to meet him and travel with him,several times simultaneously with others.
Read Papa Jack by Randy Roberts.


Loved his Mother Tiny very deeply, credited his Father with teaching him the rudiments of boxing.
Was never more than grudging in his praise of other black heavyweight boxers,with the notable exception of Sam McVey,[ he gave fullsome praise to Joe Gans, and Joe Walcott].
Was a very close friend of Stan Ketchel whom he praised lavishly on many occasions. Was very complimentary towards Jim Jeffries ,both before and after their fight, in spite of some shameful comments by Jeffries also before and after.
Commended Tommy Burns for his courage. Stated that Corbett was the archetypal boxer even though he disliked Corbett,and Corbett hated him.
Refused to put in the hat when it was passed around as a benefit for Jack Blackburn who had just been released from prison for stabbing a man, and made negative comments about Blackburn, whom it is said showed him up in a sparring session, years previously.

Offered to coach and train Joe Louis ,if Roxborough and Black sacked Blackburn,[they told him to **** off]
You won't find many photos of Louis and Johnson together.
"get that black cat out of my training camp" Joe Louis.

Had a common law black wife, and several black lovers all of whom ,either left him ,robbed him , cheated on him.
Thereafter he renounced sexual liasions with black women, and sowed the seeds for hs own downfall by openly taking white women as lovers.
Joe Louis did it many times ,but allways out of sight of prying eyes.Louis was schooled to allways be fearful of public opinion,Johnson did not give a **** about opinions ,unless they were his own.

Humiliated George Gardner ,when acting as his sparring partner, and did the same when they fought in earnest.
Carried several white hopes in fights notably Ketchel,Ross,Kaufmann,Ferguson.
Showing mercy,against outmatched opponents.

Prolonged fights with Burns and Jeffries so he could inflict more pain.
Showing cruelty, against outmatched opponents.

Johnson was an egotist of the first order, arrogant ,brave ,preening ,strutting, vain , a mendacious liar, telling stories in every one of which, he was the star ,and hero.
He was his own man and did not give a **** for White America,or Black America either.

In the immortal words of Marlene Dietrich , speaking about the dead Orson Welles , at the end of that great film "A Touch Of Evil".
What does it matter what you say about some one? He was some kind of man"

 

I think you'd like him better if he did that. Typical spin, pick another one who is guilty of the same crime. Beating women senseless is a crime that can not be excused. Now if you want to compare SRR to Johnson, its a land slide W for Sugar Ray

 

An excellent post and a balanced view of Johnson (which, to be honest, I wasn't quite sure you had until now). I'm a noir fan, so I especially appreciated the quote from "A Touch of Evil" (one of my favorites of the genre).

Bravo

 

I have asked you before ,but, without any sarcasm meant.
Are you autistic?

You take things so literally , and, the logic that allways escapes you in drawing your circumambulatory conclusions,is so glaringly obvious to everyone else,it is as though you willfully miss the point.

 

If your tutor thinks this is relevant, then there are a couple of points to bear in mind.

Today as in Johnsons own era opinions divide allong both racial and political lines. Reading about this era and adjacent eras it is somtimes fascinating how little the debates have changed.

The big change to the goalposts in this debate is the subsequent title reign of Joe Louis which has provided a strong and devisive counterpoint to Johnsons legacy.

 

Hah! Earlier today I posted youtubes of Dietrich in 'Touch of Evil' to my facebook -- I LOVE her in that film, she's like something right out of mythology!

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You are very generous to an old timer:good

 

This is known as the greatest B picture ever made,as you know Heston was instumental,in getting Welles as director,for which we should be eternally grateful.
I don't think it is a great B picture, I think it is a great A picture ,with terrific performances by an all star cast, topped by a central performance from its director.Love the music too:good