Joe Frazier defined Muhammad Ali's greatness. Discuss. Frazier beat Ali fairly and squarely in '71 - when he (Ali) was, what, 29? He took him to the edge of death in '75 - who else could have done that? I've read a bit on here that diminishes Frazier re his easy defences after he became champ. There's some truth in that, but boy, he had some wars before he became champ. Frazier was a true warrior in my eyes. Ali said that he and Joe arrived in Manilla as champions and left as old men. Nobody pushed Ali to greatness like Frazier in my eyes.
As a fellow Kiwi i agree - Frazier doesn't even get credit in Philly....Rocky Balboa has a statue though although he did beat Creed, Lang and the Russian ...in Russia
Absolutely agree. Frazier was a fighter's fighter. He's wasn't as media-friendly as Ali and he' s suffered as a result. The ironic thing is that Frazier was the inspiration for 'Rocky' - witness the hitting the slabs of beef in the freezing works coolstore. I say, Go Joe - you deserve more credit than you've been given.
Muhammad and Joe will always be thought of in the same breath. Both have enhanced each other's legacy. And if there's any such thing as losing in style,then Ali did it in Madison Square 1971 and Frazier did in in Manilla '75.
Was watching Ali spinks 2 and joe was singing the national anthem, then he went over to spinks to wish him luck and ignored ali and walked out of the ring. Man he was bitter! And im a massive fan of Smoke.
yes man, ali humiliated joe 100 times in public. joe helped ali economically when muhammad was retired. and ali betrayed him. joe has not excused to ali. when ali was taking the olympian torch frazier told marvis "i hope that he burns in the fire"
Frazier didn't define Ali's greatness at all.Ali's resume and legacy is just fine without Frazier.Frazier,however needs Ali to still remain relevant.Nobody gives two shits about Frazier if Ali's not mention.That's why Frazier has spent the last thirty years leeching off of his name.Without Ali's name to live off,Frazier's just that guy that beat a few good contenders,ducked virtually every puncher of his generation and finally got trounced when he did match up with one. Rocky Balboa,fictional or not is a far more important figure than Joe Frazier was.People who couldn't give a damn about boxing or sports know what the Rocky franchise is. And considering he's filed a lawsuit against just about every person in the city,Frazier doesn't deserve anything.
rocky and rocky balboa are as important as a grain of sand in the desert.frazier and ali are important.simples
well i said it before and will say it again : it says something of the state of mind or better the lack of sense of the common american.. putting up a statue for a imaginery figure and not for a real life ex world champ. hahaha all people who think rocky is an important figure should be locked up in a mental hospital. the guy is a movie caracter. period..!! and no matter what frazier did in his personal life. filed lawsuits or not. he still is an ex world champ and an all time great.
Ali's legacy is fine without Frazier? You have got be kidding me. He would have beaten Liston ... Foreman ... and who else of note? He had a tough time against Bonavena, and got beaten by Norton before the Thrilla In Manila. You can pretty much forget his fights post Frazier '75 - a disputed win against Young and another close one with Norton, beaten by Spinks and a clutch of fights against Europe's 'best'. Richard Dunn? Come on. As someone else has said - Rocky Balboa was a fictional figure who was based largely upon Joe Frazier. I think Smokin' Joe has a right to be pissed at Ali after the humiliation he was put through. It would be nice, however, if he were able to forgive - not for Ali's sake, but his own.