Is David Hayes athleticism and elusiveness over-rated?

This is a great point. The reason I'm not sold on Haye is the fact that he seems to not be able to put punches together without gassing. Much like Wlad, he seems to have to fight in shorter bursts than most athletic HWs. Wlad can get away with it though cos he's huge and can clinch and lean on his opponents to tire them out too. I think Haye is very mindful of what happened to him when he lost and so now he tries to do damage with quick bursts then pop shot the rest of the round away.

I'll give him a pass in the Valuev fight cos he broke his hand, and claims it happened early, but in the Ruiz fight he looked like he was on the verge of a heart attack between rounds. I'll be interested to see how he looks with Audley. Apparently he's lighter now so we'll see if his stamina has improved or not.

 

Hayes handspeed is very good but its not great. I would say his handspeed is not faster then Wlad Klitschkos.

Hayes footwork is good but not great.

Hayes power is good but not cracking.

I would say people outside of the UK dont overestimate him.

He is a good, solid HW with some flaws (defense, chin), but he is clearly below the Klitschkolevel and on the same level like Solis, Povetkin and Adamek.

 

Sorry Guy post like who the **** really cares

 

In Tyson’s recent interview with SkySports (a must watch), he wasn’t too impressed with Haye’s elusiveness against Ruiz. He seemed to be under the impression that a more aggressive/talented offensive fighter would give him trouble. For a quicker lighter guy, he doesn’t use it to the best of his ability.

 

as Tyson pointed out, hes not really elusive....and he keeps his hands low, great candidate for a KO

 

Is the Ruiz fight a good gauge for his elusiveness though? he had no sparring for the fight which any boxer will tell you is where you get your timing offensively but more importantly defensively. Especially for a fighter who uses reflexes and timing for defence most of the time.
Whilst Haye carries a low guard which isn't ideal from a defensive point of view, in 25 fights how many times has he really been caught clean?

 

Hayes speed is more overrated, that said, I do agree his elusiveness is overrated. Haye thinks dropping the left hand, fighting with a wide stance, looking to slip the odd jab, counter over the opponents jab, makes you slick, it doesn't, not getting hit makes you slick.

People confuse good counter puncher, which Haye is, for slick, which he isn't.

Haye has poor balance, which means he will never be truly be defensively sound unless its addressed. Haye also drops the left hand far too much, now its not as! bad to drop it to the point where there is still a bend in your arm(Mayweather), but Haye drops it to where his arm dangles, where there is no lock/bend in his elbow, which means if someone beats him to the punch, as Mock did, he is liable to get nailed because he cant get his arm up quick enough, simply because he has to raise his arm before he can hook with it, now the way Mayweather holds it gives you a better shot at quickly countering with the hook before they can hit you, cause he holds it near his chest, he does not have to bring it up as far to hook with it, plus there is already a bend in his arm to hook with it, so it takes less time.

Haye also has a tendency to lean in with his head to invite jabs so he can counter with the right hand, only he leaves himself open to all kinds of punches because (a) he puts too much weight on the lead foot (b) he leans his torso slightly to the left, he also tries to counter with power at all times, which is another reason his balance looks so awkward when following up his counter.

He is also a poor finisher imo, which is one of the reasons Thompson was able to withstand his onslaught, come back and knock him out when he was tired, infact Haye shows no composure whats so ever in that position imo, see his finish against Enzo, or Williams?

Haye is a good counter puncher though, I also think he has a decent jab, if he uses it.

2.55 & 3.29
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3w-IXbJ1pc[/ame]

 

The reason Haye got hit against Ruiz, was because of a technical flaw in his ring generalship, he goes straight back when attacked, and only moves off the line, when his back hits the ropes, which is why Ruiz had success moving him back with the jab, then throwing the right as he was trying to pivot away once his back hit the ropes.


0.21

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgw_4NUAaTA[/ame]

 

This opponent is exactly what I meant with his "cruiser highlight reels", this guy is a total punchbag http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=15165&cat=boxer and a lot of his opponents in his cruiser period already had early KO losses on their record.
Haye is good, but got fed far to many tomato cans in his cruiser time, he should have fought better opposition then who could take a decent punch. Maybe he would have learned then to keep his guard up and how to react when his opponent doesn't fall down after 1 decent punch.

 

I find always find your analyses interesting and enlightening. You clearly make the effort to study fights which not many people do thoroughly. Keep it up.

 

Thank a lot man, appreciate the positive comments. :thumbsup

 

Compared to some other HW I dont think he is that slippery and quick on his feet but he probably has the fastest hands at HW right now. Wlad might even be more nimble on his feet than Haye right now and although vitali seems slower he can gets those big wide punches to the target deceptively quicker than you realise on TV.

 

Well spotted

In comparison to most heavyweights, Haye is much sharper and more elusive. But he does over estimate this

The reason for this is the amount of muscle mass that he puts on in between fights. He has seemed much slower at heavyweight compared to his cruiserweight days. Haye is basically a blown up cruiserweight.

I dont think haye can find the right balance, what alarms me most is his stamina issues. Against Valuev he didnt do much, just took his time and got his shots off when he had to. But in between rounds you you see him breathing heavily and Adam Booth telling him to slow down, even though the pace he was setting wasn't that fast

Haye will win this fight, but Audley has done the right thing, gone to Big Bear and trained at altitude, because the longer this fight goes on, the more chance Audley has of taking the title

Anyhow - Haye TKO 4th

 

elusiveness?


Athletic sure but he sure as **** aint elusive. Actually considering his speed he is very hitable. Someone that fast shouldnt be so easy to hit.

 

So because a 10 fight novice couldn't finish rough and rugged battle hardened Thomson, many years ago, proves that Haye is a poor finisher? I thought he finished Enzo pretty good, beat the living daylights out of Ruiz. Maybe he's not as clinical as can be, but he has improved in the finishing department. Took Mormeck out well, finished Monte Barret with good shots, was unlucky not to drop Valuev in that last round. I think he's been going in the right direction with regards to finishing.