Is David Hayes athleticism and elusiveness over-rated?

Speed can be countered with good timing. Don't get speed mixed up with having good defensive footwork, or body movement, as that is what enables you to slip punches and set up countering opportunities.

For example Pacman is as quick as they come, but he's not exactly elusive, he can be timed, Cotto on occasions timed the jab beautifully against him, Clottey when he threw managed to land, Marquez, need I say more.

No Haye isn't elusive, but as some others pointed out, a great counter puncher with good timing, and fast hands. That's what makes haye dangerous.

 

Why do people who have an interest in boxing keep saying Thompson knocked Haye out :huh

 

Because they've never seen the fight and read other idiots saying it on here. Such is the way of this forum.

Michigan Warrior is a prime example. He claimed the Jean Pascal had been 'floored' 3 times in a previous fight (obviously not having seen it). When he was called on his bull**** he then tried to claim that floored only means stunned, and it must be a euro thing having floored meaning knocked down.

 

In regards to Haye's elusiveness, Tyson had this to say in his recent Sky Sports interview:


"...When you watch him fight, when he throws punches, watch him throw the punch, he doesn't move him head, he's not really elusive when you really think about it, he has a disadvantage by being lighter than these guys, he should be very elusive, when you're fighting Heavyweights, a Cruiserweight, a lighter guy coming at you, you have to be elusive, that's gonna be your main asset against a heavier guy, being elusive & not being able to get hit as often as the bigger guys do..."

 

His elusiveness is a bit overrated by certain people. He slipped well against Valuev and Ruiz but the Klitschkos would be able to hit him with stunning regularity for the people that think he's so elusive.

 

I just dont think Haye has improved that aspect of his game that much, which was evident in the way he finished Enzo, although I take the point, he does pace himself better in situations because of that Thompson fight, finishing prowess is still an issue though imo.

You dont think he got too wreckless in finishing Enzo? To me eyes he was flailing away like a 10 year old kid having a fight in the school playground.

I just think Haye overextends himself when he smells blood, that a fighter with more wrinkles to him game, could potentially exploit that, even when hurt.

 

This is a fair point but we can only wait and see if it really was his lack of sparring and conditioning that had him getting tagged consistantly or if it was his lack of fundamental defense. If he fought Wlad like he fights the smaller guys he'd get destroyed. He can move very well laterally and will need to do it much more to trouble Wlad.

Very good post. His balance has always been poor and against a fast and powerful fighter he'd be ****ed. Especially a good counter puncher. Against a Tyson he'd get blown away fast. Luckily for him, there's nobody in the division that fits that description.

I said Haye is very elusive for a HW in 2010 but his elusiveness is generally overrated. Why is that incorrect? It says more about the skill level of the contenders than Haye. Are you saying these guys are all more elusive than Haye:

Peter
Adamek
Chagaev
Arreola
Povetkin
Chambers
Thompson
Briggs
Chisora

Please now post highlight reels for these guys to show their slick defensive skills.

The only guys that get hit less are the Klits and they have a 5 inch height advantage on most of their opponents. To argue that Haye is not elusive for a 2010 HW is odd.

 

I've said numerous times I'd have no problem with Haye's loopy defense with both hands dangling down at knee-level if

1. his defensive reflexes made him extremely hard to hit (which they don't)
2. his chin was close to granite level (which it isn't)

Either you have the chin to carry a low guard (like Vitali) or you have reflexes and foot work that make up for it (Ottke is a good example). Haye has neither and he knows damn well that he is living on borrowed time at HW.

 

I would say judging by the way Ruiz landed the jab, yes.

 

He has very good power and speed but his stamina is very very suspect, and that is a huge part of being a combat athlete. He doesn't really have that great of foot or head movement, he just overwhelms fighters.

 

I concur:

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:rofl

Ottke is never a good example of anything, ever.

 

What Ears said.

I think, by the standards of 21st century heavyweights, he is fast and athletic, and he hits harder than most heavies of equivalent weight, but elusive? Nah, not really. Everyone's been able to land on him at one point or another. Even Ruiz landed a few good shots in between the beatdowns.

Having said that, I haven't really seen that many people praising him for being elusive, so I'm not sure he's over-rated in that department as most people don't seem to rate him for that at all.

 

David Haye is an ***** ole

 

I hate Ottke with a passion, you can't fault his foot work and defensive elusiveness though.