Should Joe Gans be ranked above Benny Leonard?

Armstrong? I´m a big fan of that man but I don´t think he is that high at lw, I rank Lou Ambers higher than him there for example.


Gans and Leonard are both genuine atgs at lw and p4p, I really don´t think it matters much who ranks higher.

 

Bear in mind that back then a fighters purse was witheld if he was even suspected of throwing a fight.

There was an incentive to make it look good.

 

Maybe it's me but the footage does not give definative monstewr shots that connect .. as far as making it look real, Gans had a history of carrying opponents and a few dives and was likely trying to make it look real by not looking like he laid down from a shot ... the newspaper accounts after screamed dive ...

 

I have Gans at 1 at lightweight.

 

I should've been more clear. If you're including fighters who were more or less natural at the weight (although Armstrong in all likelihood was probably smaller even) and taking into account their overall success, Armstrong is damn near impossible to top. However, if you're taking the literal translation and merely basing your lists on what they accomplished at the weight class, he obviously wouldn't rate as highly given his miniscule number of fights.

Still, seems odd to rate Ambers over him when Armstrong showed himself to be clearly the superior fighter in their two matchups.

 

I have been watching and researching Gans lately, purely for his skill set and ability though.

To me he appears to be the most modern fighter I have seen pre-Walker Law. He is a flashy boxer-puncher not unlike Ray Robinson or Ray Leonard. His left jab is a superb weapon and I have hardly seen a better one, but you get this from reading the accounts.

The thing that impressed me most was his combinations, he is throwing fast and hard combo's alot and looks to be very modern with it.

A superb offensive machine and very good in defence. Definitely one of the most impressive fighters of all time.

 

Well, I agree but not with the Ambers point. Ambers just simply did more at that weight. And I think their fights were fought on even terms, even so Armstrong got the better of it.

 

Heres a little more twist on this one and why theres a slight chance it wasn't a dive,,,Fleisher thought that Terry's punching power was freakishly on the level of a middleweight. Now that doesn't mean Nat thought Terry really beat him as he said, "Terry was good, but not that good." Having watched the film a number of times it all comes down to did that first right hand Terry landed stun Joe that much, if it did it could explain why Joe would keep rising and falling. Gans said he was that stunned, were all left wondering.

 

I agree with Seamus' thoughts that it was a double cross moreso than an out and out dive...Gans clearly wasn't giving it his all, but the first right that McGovern landed really was a hell of a shot. Here it is at the 56 second mark for those who haven't seen it.

[yt]q9O9DlFq5FM[/yt]