Manny Pacquiao is a sure TOP 15 ATG..

I would argue he has one against Barrera I and that's why he is where he is. I wouldn't say Barrera was necessarily at his absolute peak, but it is tough to catch an ATG at there very, very best. Barrera was still in his prime years though for me. But he's a lower-end ATG.

Pac needs a win against a higher-end ATG to be up there. Mayweather may very well be that win that can propel him up further and cement his legacy amongst the top 20 or so names if he can get him.

But difference is, when talking about the likes of Duran beating the unbeaten Leonard, Sugar Ray is a top 3 welterweight of all-time in most people's eyes. Floyd wouldn't even crack a top 15 at 147.

 

Obvious troll is obvious. But I'll continue and educate you anyway mongo. Did somebody like Langford - being that there were only 8 original weight classes - and being that he was black in an era when it was tough for fighters of his racial disposition to get title shots anyway - get an opportunity to win 5 weight class championships? No.

In order to do that, he would have had to win titles at 135, 147, 160, 175 and 200+ in his era. He would never have got a shot at all of those. Oh, and by the way, he would have been more than capable if he had the opportunity to win one of 4 world titles like fighters nowadays. He beat top 3 light-weight of all-time Joe Gans at 135 , and knocked out top 15 heavyweight of all-time Harry Wills at 200+.

 

Not in the discussion because he didn't actually do it? He didn't have the opportunity. He wasn't lucky enough to be born in an era when a fighter can move between 17 weight-classes seperated by as little as 3-4lbs and win one of 4 'world titles'. You do know he won the MW, HW and then LHW world titles right? In a time when there was one belt? That's from 160 to 200+. He weighed 150 when he beat Jack Dempsey and could have made 147. So from 147 to HW. You fill in all the weight-classes in between, put 4 belts in each of those division and it's almost a certainty that he wins 7 world titles in 7 weight divisions.

 

Completely agree with you. That's what I'm saying. I'm not some boxing expert like Bert Sugar to estimate Barera all time great status but he is not cracking the top 70 for me. I gave the example of Sanchez beating Wilfredo Gomes. Pac beating Floyd would be a win of the same magnitude.

 

TRY TOP 40 ..LMFAO...15..U FUKIN *******S REALLY NEED TO CALM DOWN:rofl:rofl:rofl

THIS GUY..WOW....THIS GUY SAID "15"...NI33333333333AAAAAAAAA PLEASE....15 MY A$$....LUCKY TO HIT 25...:deal

 

Top 15 for sure

 

Not sure what you are talking about. Let me give you only one example from who you named and you can check the rest.

Ezzard Charles won his first title at 178 and won his last at 182. His won titles ranging from 178-186 lbs. Not much gain there.

Of course if you factor in what weight they started and what weight they ended, there is a huge jump. But we are talking about beating elite and titled opponents here.

 

Charles beat greats from MW to HW. That's what I'm talking about. What about all the others? They did pretty much the same thing.

 

expect this thread to get bumped if he loses, but not if he wins

 

Don't be stupid. It'll get bumped either way. Too many 'tards of both types for it not to happen.

 

agreed!

 

long life king pac!

 

To be fair, we're pretty much agreed over on the Classic that Sugar's all-time great list is a load of **** anyway, it's typically bias towards some of the great fighters he saw in the flesh, and some of those who were idolized by the best around at his time and the best around during his own sort of era. When a guy puts Jack Johnson & Jack Dempsey in his all-time great P4P top 10, and ahead of guys like Ezzard Charles and Sam Langford, so-called 'expert' or not, I tend not to agree with his opinion more often than not.

 

Did you guy's know Pac is so great his nuthuggers have nuthuggers?

On a side note, one more stupid post from Marcelo, and he becomes the second addition to my ignore list.

 

Only the second? Who's the [un]lucky fella dare I ask?