Not that many fighters in history have wins over ATGs (certainly not on the level of Leonard) - take Chavez, Monzon, Arguello, Pep
Silly criteria when you got a guy moving up and winning 7-8 world titles. What's to say Pac hasn't stamped his greatness on the WW division? His resume at 140 and above is better than Floyd's... no? Pac has been more dominant in the higher weight classes and against common opposition (Yes, they were more faded still). Your last statement is fair. However, at this point you it's hard to justify ranking Mayweather's legacy ahead. His resume isn't better in the lower or higher divisions, regardless of Mayweather's undefeated record. I don't rate Marciano above Louis because of an undefeated record because Louis has more depth.
Pac ranks up there with the 3 names you just mentioned. How many people rank Pac behind those 3 people instead of ahead? Except for Pep, of course. And I think a past prime Pep beating Saddler is a better win than anything Pac has but that's beside the point considering your thoughts on Saddler as a fighter.
If he beats these five guys he'll be top 12 for me: 1.) Mayweather 2.) Bradley 3.) JMM 4.) Felix Sturm 5.) Sergio Martinez/Paul Williams. Throw in a few wins against guys of the Cintron, Judah, Mosley and his record will look even better. That's a lot to ask and I don't see Arum putting him that much in harms way, but if he beats those guys controversy-free then he'll have a serious argument for the top 10-15 range.
That's quite a high standard. If he beats Mayweather, that should be enough for anyone's top 15 I think.
If Pacquiao beats Mayweather he is the greatest modern boxer: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mgczfg3Rv4[/ame] youtube.com/eslubin
U want him to beat all them guys? I don't know if that's enough...I think u should add the winner of the super six and bute match up...throw in hopkins...and add in both klitschkos.
Pac had his chance to prove himself the best in a division at both 126 and 130 for many failed against Marquez each time. Above 130 he hasnt really faced the best in any division hes scalped belts (perhaps Hatton aside although Hatton looked on the slide against Lazcano), below that weight we never got the Guzman fight 140 and above Mayweather's resume is better because than Pacs because he beat better versions of Delahoya (where Mayweather got outweighed by the same amount as Pac did against Marg) and Hatton, a Mosley who dominated Marg, and Judah and Baldo were the last 2 linear titlists when he fought them as much as they're written off now. You also have to bear in mind Pacquaio has allot of his best opponents coming off very recent losses Bottom line they do need to fight, its this generations Chavez Whitaker or Leonard Duran. The winner has a case to be P4P top5
I personally think a fighters legacy is defined by their whole body of work, not just h2h match up. With that in mind I'd say Pac is currently around top 15-18 in that area and Mayweather, top 25-30. There's a very clear difference in how active Manny is compared to Mayweather and the type of opponent he picks to fight. So even though I think a head to head comparison outcome would change a lot, the real person who would be putting his legacy at risk, is Manny, not Floyd, cause from a legacy point of view Floyd needs a win to jump over Manny in terms of legacy, not the other way around. The funny thing is many of Floyd's supports won't acknowledge the obvious, which is that Floyd himself said numerous times he's only in it for the money, and doesn't give a damn about his legacy. And certainly in some of the fights he's been in, that's become extremely obvious, Baldomir being the most obvious. That said, if Floyd was more active, and took on more challenges, he could very well surprise Manny, but time is running out. Unfortunately all the skill in the world doesn't mean nothing if you fight only safe opponents. This is why Duran ranks so high, because he wasn't afraid to loss, and to really establish yourself at the top of boxing history you have to dare to loss, so that your wins mean that much more.
IMO at Featherweight-Super Featherweight Pacquiao has two great fighters names Barrera and Morales, then at Welter he has De La Hoya IMO. He also has a few good wins like Sasakul and Hatton and possibly Cotto. For me to be in a top 20 or so pound for pound ranking you need a much more varied and deep list of great fighters you have fought. In most people's lists (well, sensible people) Wilde is rated lower and more correctly IMO. I don't understand this. I agree on the first point. On the second point, I disagree. I think a win for Mayweather does not do that much for him, after all it is only one victory, it cannot right a whole career. As for Pacquiao beating Mayweather would definitely move him into the status of a top 20 fighter IMO. It would mean he had defeated a great fighter heavier than himself, arguably in his prime. Most definietly, the weight jumping is amazing. I can not dispute that. It is the rest of his resume that I feel lets him down. However, in this modern era I don't feel he can quite meet the standards of the yesteryear fighters. Monzon - Napoles Chavez - fair point Arguello - Olivares Pep - Saddler, Manuel Ortiz