Below are the stories of of six ATG's. Three above grew up in extreme poverty, the three below grew up poor, but were discovered talents that were shoe-shined for the Olympics and well managed to World Titles. I think P4P lists today seem to be a mix between head to head matches and greatness. I think the two can be separated into All-Time P4P and All-Time Greatness. What do you think? Pacquiao completed his elementary education at Saavedra Saway Elementary School in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Santos_City"]General Santos City[/ame], but dropped out of high school due to extreme poverty.[16] He left his home at age 14 because his mother, who had six children, was not making enough money to support her family. Julio César Chávez was born on July 12, 1962 in Obregón, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora"]Sonora[/ame] [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora"] This content is protected Sonora[/ame] , Mexico. His father, Rodolfo Chavez, worked for the railroad, and Julio grew up in an abandoned railroad car with his five sisters and four brothers. He began boxing as an amateur at the age of sixteen and then he moved to Culiacán to pursue a professional career. Chávez came from a poor family and became a boxer for money, he stated: "I saw my mom working ironing and washing peoples clothes, and I promised her I would give her a house someday and she would never have that job again." Durán was born in June 16, 1951 Panama, to a Panamanian mother and Mexican father, in the slums of El Chorrillo in a place called "La Casa de Piedra" (The House of Stone). He made his professional debut in 1968 at the age of 16. Compare with: Mayweather was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, with his mother's last name.[5] His last name would change to Mayweather shortly thereafter. His father, Floyd Mayweather, Sr., is a former welterweight contender, while two of his uncles, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Mayweather"]Jeff Mayweather[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Mayweather"]Roger Mayweather[/ame], won championship titles. Whitaker was born in January of 1964 in Norfolk, Virginia, a coastal city known for its military bases and its tough neighborhoods. He grew up in the Young Park section of Norfolk, then as now a challenging place to live. His parents, Raymond and Novella Whitaker, provided a stable home life and preached the virtues of hard work and self-discipline. They urged Pernell to do his homework and stay in school, and they encouraged him to find sports that would fill the need for exercise and competition. Leonard was the fifth of six children born to Cicero and Getha Leonard. When he was three, the family moved from Wilmington, Delaware to Washington, D.C. When he was ten, they settled permanently in the suburbs in Palmer Park, Maryland, of one-story homes built in the late 1950s. His father worked as a night manager of a supermarket, and his mother was a nurse.
Suppose you can make interesting observations and even get philosophical and **** if you really want to. Ain't no arguing that Pernell, Floyd and Leonard though, just in case that is what this implying. I admire the **** out of fighters that came from abject poverty to be immortalised in the ring though, there's nothing more heart-warming than the Roberto Duran story, that kind of **** can soften a killer's heart.
Not arguing who is better because I think that is harder to interpret than who is greater. With the examples I gave at least there was two show downs to prove who was better. One more to go! But when you start considering the range of fighters that have fought in those weight classes there is no way those fighters can be compared in H2H matches because there are intangibles you can't compare. Would Pac or May have beaten KT? Maybe, but I don't know. Can I interpret who is greater? I think so! What I think is easier to compare are where a fighter grew up, their amateur career, the trainer, the management, nutritionist, exercise regime, etc. I think another way to think about this is what do the accomplishments mean at that time. Like home runs records, how many years did it take to break those records. In boxing you can look at undefeated streaks, title challenges, weight divisions, and unifications for comparison. At the end of the day it is subjective, but I think greatness is easier to interpret than H2H. P4P seems to be argued as a is a mix between the two which I think is the hardest to interpret.
It's just too subjective. The only way to try and be really objective is by using resume, but even then some people will say it's unfair because of the dynamic of the game being different in different eras. It's just subjective. I'm off now unfortunately, this will be a good thread.
Five of the six you've listed won at least one belt at 135. Of those five, four of them won belts at 147. That's the dividing line! Pacquiao 112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140, 147, 154 Duran 135, 147, 154, 160 Whitaker 135, 140, 147, 154 Mayweather 130, 135, 140, 147, 154 Chavez 130, 135, 140
Of the six I was more so giving a real live example to use for comparison of ATG vs H2H vs P4P. You used weight class for your criteria, so then how would you rank them ATG, H2H, or P4P? I think in all three settings you can come up with different rankings.
Another way to think of it, would Pacquiao, Chavez, and Duran had been able to achieve more if they had the training and the management of Mayweather, Whitaker, and Leonard? I think the first three would have at least had become Olympians, and Pacquiao wouldn't have the early losses.
