The last time a P4P-er in his Prime got his ass handed to him in 4 minutes?

RJJ by Antonio Tarver in the second round of their second fight
Judah by Kostya Tszyu in the second round of their only fight

 

tyson in japan

edit: oh 4 mins... nevermind.

 

the last time was probably jones getting taken out in the second round by tarver, but it would be a very short thread if everyone put that. so i put fights in were a P4P'er was knocked out within 2 rounds or less. :good

 

Forgive me, I should have made myself explicit. I don't doubt that reputable organisations, like The Ring, have/ had him ranked in the Top 10. What I meant to say was that I, personally, haven't read a good defence of him as a Top 10 p4p and simply cannot see how he could be included in that list, given his level of performance.

Dawson was ranked by many as a top p4per, not least by The Ring. I protested then too, and we all know what happened against Pascal.

Now I protest when people rank Ward as a top p4per.

I admit, though, I sometimes claim a degree of authority in my posts that is unwarranted. Most established posters have learned to forgive this weakness of mine though. :good

 

what fighters make up the top ten in your opinion ?

 

I think that people get too much of a hang-up about the Top 10. After all, 10 is a fairly arbitrary number. Why not Top 12? Or Top 7? People, get so high about the "Top 10" that in their minds a big gap is formed between the Top 10 and the rest. Well, that may be the case, but if it were, it would be purely accidental. There is no reason why, for example, the Top 11th guy shouldn't be closer to the Top 10th than the Top 10th was to the Top 9th...

...anyway, this is the reason why I avoid top 10s and lists - they are not only arbitrary but they mislead. What is important is the level of performance. That is a better indicator of a fighter's worth and because it is graded on an absolute scale, it allows comparisons against former fighters and present fighters and shows degrees of separation too, unlike the numerical 1 to 10.

I would say that Williams does not perform regularly at a better than B level. There are a fair few fighters who perform at this level or at a better one. Certainly, more than 25 or so. So, in my eyes, Williams is not one of the very best guys.

In my view, there's only two fighters that perform at true elite level - Pacman and Mayweather.

Then, there are fighters who perform at borderline elite level, like present-day Martinez, Wlad at his best, present-day JMM ...

Then, there are some B+ level figters... top world-class performers like Donaire, Montiel...

Yeah, these guys will appear in most people's Top 10s. But what is important to me is not whether they are in the top 10 or not, but the level of performance. :good

 

I see the point, but Williams arguably beat Martinez last year and in addition, he completely outclassed Winky Wright. Even though Wright was coming of a long layoff, nobody ever could handle him the way Williams did. If Margo's win over Cotto put Margo anno in p4p top10, Williams' win over Margo has to be given due credit as well.

I could not list 10 better p4p fighters last week than The Punisher which leads to the conclusion that we was a ligimate p4p top 10 warrior.

He is not any more.:sad2

 

Hatton was top 10 P4P, lineal champ and undefeated at 140, and same age as Pac (29), just gave Paulie Malignaggi his first KO loss 6 months prior. He may not have been peak, but still prime.

 

Forget Winky. Beating that version of Winky counts for little. How good was Winky's performance on the night? That alone is relevant, not Winky's name on his resume.

Yeah, the performance against Martinez was significant. But that alone was not sufficiently good to list him amongst the best. Martinez himself wasn't one of the best at the time.

Margarito doesn't count for much - his performance on the night was poor. Margarito against Cotto/ Pacquiao was A LOT better - a whole class better.

The reason Martinez is ranked as high as he is now is mainly because of his performance against Pavlik and Williams 2. It's not so much the names he beat, but mainly the way he beat them - his performance on the night given that of his opponents.

 

I would suggest that the following fighters would probably have been in the top 10 p4p when they suffered the fate in question:

Pedlar Palmer
Terry McGovern
George Chip
Floyd Patterson
Michael Spinks

 

He could have been on coke for years. It doesn't change the fact he was still prime.

 

Hatton was never considered a p4p fighter