It's not that Pacquiao isn't great, it's just hard to put him above someone like Leonard. His wins, assuming he beats Floyd, don't compare to Hagler, Hearns, Duran, and Benitez. Duran himself dominated an entire division and beat more legitimate fighters past his best weight, including an ATG in Leonard. With that said, it's hard to imagine Leonard HIMSELF surpassing the likes of Armstrong, Ali, Robinson and Louis. It's not surprising to find him lower than 5 on a top ten or fifteen. I can't see Pacquiao doing much better with any good hard look at him versus the greatest fighters in history. I don't get it; all this talk after Pacquiao beats Margarito at 151, and he's suddenly the best fighter ever to walk the Earth. Where the hell was this talk when Mosley KO'd him at 38 years old or Williams beat a fresher pre-scandal Margarito? I understand Pacquiao has done thing no other boxer has done; he is great for the sport, pound for pound number 1, a favorite of mine, an ATG pretty well up there on the list. But the fanaticism is getting ridiculous.
Here's ESPN top 50 boxers list (as of 2007) Now look at this list and tell me where you fit Manny in 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. This content is protected 3. Henry Armstrong 4. Joe Louis 5. Willie Pep 6. This content is protected 7. Benny Leonard 8. Jack Johnson 9. Jack Dempsey 10. Sam Langford 11. Joe Gans 12. This content is protected 13. Harry Greb 14. This content is protected 15. Jimmy Wilde 16. Gene Tunney 17. Mickey Walker 19. Stanley Ketchel 20. This content is protected 21. Tony Canzoneri 22. Barney Ross 23. Jimmy McLarnin 24. Julio Cesar Chavez 25. Marcel Cerdan 26. This content is protected 27. Ezzard Charles 18. Archie Moore 28. Jake LaMotta 29. Sandy Saddler 30. Terry McGovern 31. Billy Conn 32. Jose Napoles 33. Ruben Olivares 34. Emile Griffith 35. This content is protected 36. Eder Jofre 37. This content is protected 38. This content is protected 39. This content is protected 40. This content is protected 41. Ted "Kid" Lewis 42. Alexis Arguello 43. This content is protected 44. Pernell Whitaker 45. Carlos Monzon 46. This content is protected 47. This content is protected 48. This content is protected 49. This content is protected 50. This content is protected Note: This was made when Floyd was 38-0 so he would obviously move up on the list after beating Hatton, Marquez and Mosley
I agree with the "tougher" but thats all, if you think clearly you have to realize that making 15 rounds means also they does not have enough knockout power or their skills are not too high otherwise they would finish the fight earlier ... there is just a few exceptions like e.g. Ali-Frazier III. Tell me what was more impressive: point win of Williams over Martinez or 2nd round KO by Matrinez?
Quotes from old time boxing writer and historian Bill Gallo, one of the most respected in his field. Former president of the Boxing Writers Association of America. This content is protected
top 5 can include Robinson Armstrong Pep Louis Greb Benny Leonard Sugar Ray Leonard Manny is no where near them
I personally think Pacman is somewhere around 15th on the ATG list, which for those naysayers is damn good. Sometimes a little perspective is required. Things like title defenses matter, the quality of opponents matter, longivity matters. Take someone like Duran, he was 72-1 at one point in his career and the IBRO who's list is the one I really respect has him as the 2nd greatest lightweight of all time, and the 20th greatest Welterweight of all time. He also beat Leonard who was voted 2nd all time on the Welterweight list and he gave Hagler a good go, who was voted #6 on the all time middleweight list. He lost to Hearns who was voted #8 all time on the welterweight list. So these are the type of challenges Pac faces when he tried to reach the higher eshleons of the sport. Than there's the pure volume of fights many of these fighters fought. SRR fought over 200 times, and Duran fought well over 100 fights, so you can't discount these achievements by giving someone trinkets called multiple belts that never existed in the past and pretend they mean the same thing as fighting 50-60 more fights, or facing ATG opposition,..they don't. So judge Pac on what he's done against the opposition he's fought and forget those meaningless belts. Otherwise 20 years from now when there's twice as many belts and there's a belt at 140, 142, 144, 145 and 147, and 150 someone's gonna win a dozen of them and really make Pac look average..see how silly that sounds?
and his 8 titles in 8 classes how many were against the consensus number 1 at 135, 147, 154 he did not beat them man at the weight
I think it's fair to have Pac in the top 20 of all time. He'll need some (more) spectacular victories to make the top 5 though. I can't see it but, having watched Pac over the past few years, I won't write it off as being impossible.
After looking at this, I'm seeing that I would change a lot on it. I would have Roy Jones higher, Hearns higher, Sugar Leonard higher, Fraizer lower and Roberto Duran after Sugar Ray Leonard
Not his voice doesn't matter, but so does a whole group of boxing historian's namely the IBRO, to me they matter more. Far more actually. http://www.ibroresearch.com/?cat=9
Here we go with this bull**** again.:? That kind of high ranking would require more than beating Clottey or Margarito type fighters. If Pac wants that type of rating, the challenges are out there, and Pac would have to put a lot of work.