pac will be on top 5 ATG when he retires

It's not that Pacquiao isn't great, it's just hard to put him above someone like Leonard. His wins, assuming he beats Floyd, don't compare to Hagler, Hearns, Duran, and Benitez. Duran himself dominated an entire division and beat more legitimate fighters past his best weight, including an ATG in Leonard.

With that said, it's hard to imagine Leonard HIMSELF surpassing the likes of Armstrong, Ali, Robinson and Louis. It's not surprising to find him lower than 5 on a top ten or fifteen. I can't see Pacquiao doing much better with any good hard look at him versus the greatest fighters in history.


I don't get it; all this talk after Pacquiao beats Margarito at 151, and he's suddenly the best fighter ever to walk the Earth. Where the hell was this talk when Mosley KO'd him at 38 years old or Williams beat a fresher pre-scandal Margarito?

I understand Pacquiao has done thing no other boxer has done; he is great for the sport, pound for pound number 1, a favorite of mine, an ATG pretty well up there on the list. But the fanaticism is getting ridiculous.

 

Here's ESPN top 50 boxers list (as of 2007)
Now look at this list and tell me where you fit Manny in

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2.

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3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6.

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7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12.

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13. Harry Greb
14.

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15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
19. Stanley Ketchel
20.

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21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26.

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27. Ezzard Charles
18. Archie Moore
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35.

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36. Eder Jofre
37.

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38.

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39.

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40.

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41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43.

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44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46.

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47.

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48.

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49.

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50.

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Note: This was made when Floyd was 38-0 so he would obviously move up on the list after beating Hatton, Marquez and Mosley

 

I agree with the "tougher" but thats all, if you think clearly you have to realize that making 15 rounds means also they does not have enough knockout power or their skills are not too high otherwise they would finish the fight earlier ... there is just a few exceptions like e.g. Ali-Frazier III.

Tell me what was more impressive: point win of Williams
over Martinez or 2nd round KO by Matrinez?

 

Quotes from old time boxing writer and historian Bill Gallo, one of the most respected in his field. Former president of the Boxing Writers Association of America.

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say wha?

 

top 5 can include Robinson Armstrong Pep Louis Greb Benny Leonard Sugar Ray Leonard

Manny is no where near them

 

I personally think Pacman is somewhere around 15th on the ATG list, which for those naysayers is damn good. Sometimes a little perspective is required. Things like title defenses matter, the quality of opponents matter, longivity matters. Take someone like Duran, he was 72-1 at one point in his career and the IBRO who's list is the one I really respect has him as the 2nd greatest lightweight of all time, and the 20th greatest Welterweight of all time. He also beat Leonard who was voted 2nd all time on the Welterweight list and he gave Hagler a good go, who was voted #6 on the all time middleweight list. He lost to Hearns who was voted #8 all time on the welterweight list.

So these are the type of challenges Pac faces when he tried to reach the higher eshleons of the sport. Than there's the pure volume of fights many of these fighters fought. SRR fought over 200 times, and Duran fought well over 100 fights, so you can't discount these achievements by giving someone trinkets called multiple belts that never existed in the past and pretend they mean the same thing as fighting 50-60 more fights, or facing ATG opposition,..they don't.

So judge Pac on what he's done against the opposition he's fought and forget those meaningless belts.

Otherwise 20 years from now when there's twice as many belts and there's a belt at 140, 142, 144, 145 and 147, and 150 someone's gonna win a dozen of them and really make Pac look average..see how silly that sounds?

 

and his 8 titles in 8 classes how many were against the consensus number 1 at 135, 147, 154 he did not beat them man at the weight

 

dead on with the last point

 

I think it's fair to have Pac in the top 20 of all time. He'll need some (more) spectacular victories to make the top 5 though.

I can't see it but, having watched Pac over the past few years, I won't write it off as being impossible.

 

After looking at this, I'm seeing that I would change a lot on it. I would have Roy Jones higher, Hearns higher, Sugar Leonard higher, Fraizer lower and Roberto Duran after Sugar Ray Leonard

 

Not his voice doesn't matter, but so does a whole group of boxing historian's namely the IBRO, to me they matter more. Far more actually.

http://www.ibroresearch.com/?cat=9

 

Ok...SRL has wins over Hagler, Hearns and Duran...how is Duran so far ahead of him?

 

Here we go with this bull**** again.:? That kind of high ranking would require more than beating Clottey or Margarito type fighters. If Pac wants that type of rating, the challenges are out there, and Pac would have to put a lot of work.

 

pretty good site why dont they update it more alot of the lists are 4 or 5 years old.