Don't overrate Andre Ward; he has weaknesses that can be exploited!

Ramón · Nov 24, 2010

sugarngold said: ↑

Well you raise some points but I'm not sure how valid they are. Just because he hasn't been knocked down or out doesn't mean that is a weakness. It just means he's been good enough to circumnavigate those problems at this point in his career. Ward was knocked down early in his career and recovered fairly quickly. It may be some time before anyone can find his chin with a solid punch. I think questioning his athleticism is a mistake however when it's obvious that he has stamina, endurance and enough speed and power to put him in the mix with anyone. He was the olympic gold medalist after all. This alone should be a testament to his athleticism. I believe Pernell Whitaker described it best when he said that "nowadays anyone can win a world title because there are so many sanctioning bodies out there, but to win the gold medal at the olympics is special, it means you are the best in the world."
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Point taken about the athleticism, but I disagree with PW. The best doesn't always win the gold at the Olympics and the most athletic boxer doesn't always reach the last rounds...

sugarngold · Nov 24, 2010

techks said: ↑

I can't blame him lol. I would love to fight in Maryland every opportunity I could. Hopkins is one of the few to get a draw in another man's hometown though he got decked twice in the first Mercado fight(Hopkins' only kd's BTW).
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Good example. lol

:good

Ramón · Nov 24, 2010

laffie said: ↑

I personnally thik that Ward has enough tools to fool Bika even if he doesn't have enough power to hurt him.
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I also agree with this. But Bika will still be a test that he should be able to learn from. Bika, at his best, will test even the very best.

Ramón · Nov 24, 2010

Henke67 said: ↑

There are definitely a few unknowns about Ward although he has looked excellent thus far.

The good news is, the talent is there at 168 to help us find out. If he can beat Froch, Abraham and Bute, I'll certainly be ready to call him the real deal.

Some fighters can go a long time without having to prove these qualities though. How long did we have to wait before we found out RJJ didn't have a good chin? It was only after beating Mosley that people said Floyd could deal with real adversity.

If Ward beats the other top guys at 168 without necessarily proving his chin, heart or athleticism, I don't think that should be held against him,
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True...:good

techks · Nov 24, 2010

Ramón;8282650 said:

I think you've made some very important points. He does rely more on technique, so he doesn't have to fall back on athleticism. Yep, true.:good
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Like Roy Jones & Toney in their days. Both had natural talents but Toney was able to take his career farther because of his craftiness. He even mentioned something like "representing for Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, & Walcott" and they were also incredibly crafty.

Ramón · Nov 24, 2010

ocelot said: ↑

The main thing that I think could work against him is that he doesn't have the power to truly threaten his opponent. Calzaghe got away with that later in his career because he made up for it with insane punch volume. But will Ward have enough to keep powerful SMWs, and LHWs off of him late in the fight? Time will tell.
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In my experience, there comes a time when every top fighter has to find the Ace up his sleeve to win a fight - an equaliser. I look at Ward and he's complete and well rounded but I don't see that Ace, that equaliser. If he cannot rely on a great chin and he doesn't have power, he'd better have a hell of a heart when he is severally tested, because one thing's for sure - he will be tested - every fighter is at some point.

john garfield · Nov 24, 2010

Ramón;8281067 said:

Ward is extremely talented.

He is technically as sound as they come. He is extremely versatile. He can fight inside, outside and he can fight dirty.

He is intelligent and disciplined, inside as well as outside the ring. He is crafty and wise - a great tactician who will implement a winning game-plan extremely well, especially for a relatively young and inexperienced fighter.

He has the inclination to try to do whatever it takes to win.

Not least, he is blessed with a very good promoter, very favourably inclined TV networks, the good fortune to have been born in the USA and three features that could make him iconic - his religious beliefs, that gold medal and the fact that he is a well-adjusted, well-spoken, polite black young man. All these things will play to his advantage when the cookie crumbles - Ward will get the fights that suit him, he will get home advantage when it really matters, the networks will be willing him to win and the referee and judges will be partial to helping him win close fights.

...Auspicious circumstances and characteristics indeed - Ward could have what it takes to become one of the very best.

However, there are a few unknowns that should prevent us from calling him the real deal at the highest level yet:-

1. How good is his chin? Is it good enough to save him against a world class puncher when it really matters? (e.g. Abraham)

2. How tough is he? Can he take a lot of punches from a world class pressure fighter? Can he take hard, effective punches to the body and keep sharp and active in the later rounds? (e.g. Andrade)

3. Is his power good enough to maintain the respect of a truly determined effective pressure fighter/ puncher? (e.g. Froch/ Andrade)

4. How athletic is he? Can he rely on his athleticism to save him when the going really gets tough, against an all-round good opponent determined to stop him? (e.g. Bute) Is he fast enough to implement his game against a very fast, athletic fighter? (e.g. Dirrell)

5. Does he have the courage and will to wade through very deep, dark waters to win? Is he prepared to sacrifice his health to turn a fight around? Is he proud and crazy enough? Does he have the will and courage to do whatever it takes?

I guess we'll see. His performance against Kessler was very promising. In some ways it was so promising that we are in danger of reading too much into it.

I think it's too early to call him the real deal.

I am not convinced that he will not be let down particularly by a combination of lack of chin, power, toughness and self-destructive pride. I am not convinced that his many great qualities will always be sufficient to compensate for these perceived weaknesses.

Do you agree that these are valid areas of concern?
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GREAT POST, R

Lookin' forward to the feedback.

Ramón · Nov 24, 2010

techks said: ↑

Like Roy Jones & Toney in their days. Both had natural talents but Toney was able to take his career farther because of his craftiness. He even mentioned something like "representing for Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, & Walcott" and they were also incredibly crafty.
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Perhaps his craftiness is his get-out-of-gaol card...:think

Ramón · Nov 24, 2010

rocky538 said: ↑

Skills will beat ward not tough guys or supposed pressure fighters, Froch and Andrade are effective vs. a certain type of boxer but they're not going to beat Ward. Ward's technical skills and smarts keep him out of those dark waters, that's the whole point.

In my opinion Bute/Direll/Ward are the 3 best SMW's in the world if Ward loses it will be to one of those guys and it will be because the better boxer won, these guys are all above the rest.
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Very interesting argument... would you care to expand on it?

techks · Nov 24, 2010

Henke67 said: ↑

There are definitely a few unknowns about Ward although he has looked excellent thus far.

The good news is, the talent is there at 168 to help us find out. If he can beat Froch, Abraham and Bute, I'll certainly be ready to call him the real deal.

Some fighters can go a long time without having to prove these qualities though. How long did we have to wait before we found out RJJ didn't have a good chin? It was only after beating Mosley that people said Floyd could deal with real adversity.

If Ward beats the other top guys at 168 without necessarily proving his chin, heart or athleticism, I don't think that should be held against him,
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Roy Jones DID have a good chin but his speed & quickness helped him not take too many punches. He only got decked once in his prime against Del Valle but even that was questionable as you have to take into account the wetspots Roy Jones would often put in the ring when he was dripping with water from his corner.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRwQADvvcY[/ame]

Once his atleticism faded past his prime he didn't have the fundamentals or craftiness to help the later part of his career. I agree with everything else in your post.

klion22 · Nov 24, 2010

Like any up and comer, the question of his chin and power is valid. It just hasn't been tested yet. But i truly believe everything else is there. Whether that's the proper mental make up and enough athleticism. He has too much pride to back down in tough situations and too much respect for the sport to take any opponent lightly.

techks · Nov 24, 2010

Ramón;8282729 said:

Perhaps his craftiness is his get-out-of-gaol card...:think
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Toney used to be a crack dealer believe it or not. It's amazing how a former drug dealer turned his life around in order to become a great boxer.

Ramón · Nov 24, 2010

klion22 said: ↑

Like any up and comer, the question of his chin and power is valid. It just hasn't been tested yet. But i truly believe everything else is there. Whether that's the proper mental make up and enough athleticism. He has too much pride to back down in tough situations and too much respect for the sport to take any opponent lightly.
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I don't think there can be an argument over his power/effective punching.

He doesn't have world class power and he is not a world class puncher.

His fights against Miranda and Green are conclusive in that respect.

WesT · Nov 24, 2010

I don't think he need's the chin to stand a shot from Abraham ...nobody can have such a chin he needs the skills to evade those shots for 12 rounds.

klion22 · Nov 24, 2010

Ramón;8282782 said:

I don't think there can be an argument over his power/effective punching.

He doesn't have world class power and he is not a world class puncher.

His fights against Miranda and Green are conclusive in that respect.
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That's true, he is definitely not a powerful puncher but that isn't necessarily crucial to his success. Few people have world class power. With Ward's all around athleticism, mental make up and boxing skills, it's not a necessity.

Then the real question for me is his chin.

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