Rocky had the same advantages and lack of advantages he had in most of his big fights. Great power, work rate and stamina. Those are still there in this match-up. He was almost always the shorter, lighter, stumpier guy. Nothing new about that.
none of his title challengers were as big or punched as hard as liston.they didn't have an 84 reach either.liston would bury rocky
Tough fight to call, Sonny had some difficulty taking out Bert Whitehurst, not once, but twice. Sonny couldn't KO Bert. Bert Whitehurst had some physical attributes close to Rocky. 6' 0" 190 lbs. This fight would go at least 10 rounds.
Although I rate Rocky higher, I see this fight as 50-50. I do think that Marciano could negotiate Sonn'y jab; even so, having to come in to a guy like Sonny is going to be a stern test.
I thnk this fight would be closer than many have stated. I used to think it would be a Liston blow out, but now I think Marciano could get on the inside with his ducking style to slip under Liston's jab. Marciano would be the quicker man in the ring for once; Liston was terribly slow, even in his prime, and Marciano was able to quick jabs from Walcott, Charles, Moore, and Louis. On the inside it would be brutal. Marciano wouldn't give Liston an inch, but they are both incredibly strong so it would be a very even pushing match, but with Marciano able to get more torque in his punches when they get a little bit of punching room. Obviously the problem for Marciano would be to get by Liston's heavy jab and powerful uppercuts. Liston had one of the hardest jabs of all time and he would be looking to keep Marciano away from him by slamming that jab into Marciano's face. He would also look to club Marciano with a right cross as Rocky leans away from Liston's jabs, which would shake Rocky up. Great match up.
Never having fought a Marciano doesn't mean he couldn't handle Marciano though. The only 200+ lb opponents Marciano fought of any note were an old Joe Louis, Don Cockell the light heavyweight and Johnny Shkor who may or may not have made the top 10 rankings once in his career. There is little proof of how Marciano could deal with hard-hitting opponents who have over 30 pounds on him in weight, but most believe he can do it since he's great. It's the same for Liston. His style and other advantages seem made for handling opponents who go after him, while having great difficulties against fast movers with technical skill or amazing athletic talent (as Ali had). George Foreman had not fought a Joe Frazier either, he actually hadn't beaten much of a live opponent all, but he still destroyed him. Frazier never having fought a Foreman proved to be a bigger factor than Foreman never having fought a Frazier, and I believe that to be the case in Liston-Marciano as well. A bigger man, with a long jab and a devastating arsenal of power punches, in there against a pressuring foe who you'll never have to look for.
Liston bounces him off the canvas. Rocky has a size and style disadvantage, especially in terms of reach. Liston had long, long arms and a great jab/underrated boxing skill, marciano would absorb a great deal of punishment. Marciano also never fought a big guy worth a damn in terms of accomplishments or ability (I will not count a shot Louis). Having seen him take shots from smaller, punchers and go down I am not inclined to favor him over 12 versus a murderer like a prime Sonny Liston. Rocky has heart and the will to win, but I just don't think he can overcome the mountain of challenges Liston presents.
Sonny Listons' style looks like he would bust-up Rocky over the long haul. But wouldn't under-estimate Rocky's heart and sheer will to win. I wonder how that fight would look, if Sonny didn't get Rocky out of there by the 8th round.
I don't think that is true, Seamus. I think Rocky and Sonny are in the same league, and I think Walcott/Charles and Patterson are in the same class. It could be argued that Liston is more tested at the highest level for obvious reasons, but I don't think there's a lot of difference in terms of the best man they beat.
Liston was about as big as the depleted Joe Louis Marciano fought. Meanwhile, lil', softpunching Marty Marshall had little trouble getting to Liston in their first fight. Liston had to throw everything and kitchen sink against Machen for 12 rounds but he kept standing. Whitehurst lasted the distance despite being KO'd by smaller fighters previously. So, saying Marciano does not have a chance to last is intellectually dishonest at best. Look, I'm partly playing Devil's advocate here. I think it is a real tough choice and have gone back and forth. About all I can't agree with here is an early stoppage. Marciano would be the best fighter Liston faced, better than the green Clay (I discount the Ali fight as being too suspicious), so a blowout seems highly unlikely.
I guess I don't think as much of Patterson as you. I know Liston destroyed the ranks of the late 50's/ early 60's heavies but I rate Walcott, Charles and the depleted Louis higher than Patterson.