Choynski v.s. Barbados Joe .. What Happened ?

Joe Walcott was no ordinary welter though. He was probably the hardest punching welter ever with power to rival that of hws and a true p4p great. No shame in that IMO.

 

Choynski claimed to have either a flu or broken ribs (as a result of a Maher fight) but I dont know the truth.

 

In one of my very old Ring Mags I recall reading Nat Fleischer's interview with an old Joe Choynski...in the interview Choynski claimed that a short time before the bout, he slipped on ice, and damaged some ribs badly..
Against his better judgement he didn't call off the fight, and after 7 rounds of pain, he retired from the fight and Walcott was winner by a tko.
Probably true, as Walcott fought 145 pounds Kid Lavigne twice without
dropping Lavigne even once...

 

Lavigne was very tough and at seems that those fights are a bit suspicious according to some posters on here. There was a discussion about that a while ago.

 

Yes, Kid Lavigne at peak was an animal. His fights with Walcott were classics, and yes there were "rumours", but we have to take the 2 bouts
at face value..
Besides Joe Choynski, though about 170-5 took on strong heavyweights
and whipped most of them..But, we will never know for sure....

 

Did anyone see Barbados Joe on youtube btw??

 

Yeah, I don´t know who it was but one poster made a good case that Walcott threw one Lavigne fight, I think the first, and was badly weight-drained for the second one.
Anyway both were terrific fighters but so was Choinsky. But Joe wasn´t the most durable himself and Barbados Joe could knock anybody under 180 pounds out and most above too as long as he could reach them.

 

He didn't throw either fight with Lavigne. The first bout was fixed beforehand, however, so that if Lavigne lasted the distance he was to be given the verdict automatically. Oddly enough it was an agreed upon stipulation by both parties. Even the fans were aware. Strange times indeed.

As for the bout itself, given the next-day round by rounds, etc. it would seem that Walcott battered him around for the most part, with Lavigne hanging tough and even coming on late. Walcott won a good 10 of the 15 rounds, though.

The rematch was considered one of the most brutal fights in history at the time, with Lavigne taking a more forward, aggressive stance and surprising Walcott from the get-go. That said, there was a lot of speculation as to the kind of shape Walcott turned up in. I can't recall exactly, but I believe there were talks of him having the flu, major leg cramps, etc.

Lavigne proved his toughness in these bouts, no doubt, but what burt said about taking the fights at face value is wrong, in my opinion. Not when there's so much evidence to the contrary.

 

That´s what I meant, didn´t remember it right. Thanks for clearing it up. :good

 

My point was to show that Kid Lavigne, [lightweight ] was never dropped by Welterweight great Walcott...In the second bout held in Maspeth, L.I.
Lavigne's ear was virtually torn off, and was hanging by a shred, but his
courage ,took the Kid to a decision.
Maybe there was some hanky-panky in the 2 fights, but there is much
a possibility that Joe Choynski entered the ring with bad ribs against
Walcott, also...

 

Here Barbados Joe sizing up Harry Wills - is it just me or does anyone else thinks Harry Wills looks a tad concerned in this pic LOL

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Contractual agreements like that were actually common practice back then. They were basically equivalent to "handicap" matches.

I believe there was a similar such agreement when Tom Sharkey first came to the US mainland and fought Choynski. The reason for that purportedly was that Sharkey was vastly inexperienced compared to Choynski, who was already a respected contender by then, and a stipulation like that was meant to "even things out." Choynski's people probably accepted the terms because Sharkey was probably viewed as the equivalent of a clubfighter-level fighter at that time and not someone in the class of their man.

I believe the speculation focused on Walcott's effort to make weight. The fight was for Lavigne's LW title, and Walcott was growing into a WW by that time.

 

I would agree with that, amazing when you think Barbados Joe HIT HARDER THAN WILLS...