Ali's Missing Years.

Ali W15 Frazier 1968/1969 for a start.

(Let the bull**** about Ali being in his prime in 71 begin )

 

I wont post the 1967 rankings because they essentialy reflect what happened in 1966.







1968 Muhammad Ali, Champion

1. Joe Frazier
2. Jimmy Ellis
3. Oscar Bonavena
4. George Chuvalo
5. Sonny Liston
6. Jerry Quarry
7. Leotis Martin
8. Manuel Ramos
9. Alvin (Blue) Lewis
10. Floyd Patterson

1969 Muhammad Ali, Champion

1. Joe Frazier
2. Jimmy Ellis
3. Jerry Quarry
4. Leotis Martin
5. Mac Foster
6. Sonny Liston
7. Oscar Bonavena
8. Al Jones
9. Henry Cooper
10. Gregorio Manuel Peralta

1970 Joe Frazier, Champion

1. Muhammad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Oscar Bonavena
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Mac Foster
6. Henry Cooper
7. George Chuvalo
8. Sonny Liston
9. Jose Ibar Urtain
10. Jose Luis Garcia

In summary, I would suggest that title fights with Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena and of course Frazier are likley. If there is going to be a significant change it might be a title fight with Leotis Martin. The main concequence would probably be the Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena, and Mac Foster fights moving forward a year and being replaced by something else.

 

Muhammad Ali would defeat every contender, including Joe Frazier, within this period and then suffers the first defeat of his career at the hands of Ken Norton.


Norton's style gave Ali hell.


Just to comment on what Bill Butcher was refereeing to; I believe Muhammad Ali was not the same fighter in his first fight with Frazier as he was before his ban. As Cus D'Amato quipped - Ali's reflexes, timing and speed would have suffered due to his prolonged inactivity. This was pretty evident in his comeback fights with Oscar & Frazier. His movement and footwork were simply not the same.

 

This makes sense, because these would all have been big money fights.

 

A defense against Spencer in the fall of '67 makes sense. Then probably MacFoster, Mathis and Quarry (in no particular order). Ellis would probably have to wait a bit, since a fight between Ali and his former sparring partner would never be a great sell. I think a Chuvalo rematch might actually happen before that.

An interesting question is when a fight against Frazier would happen. I don't think Durham (a shrewd operator) would have wanted it before '69, but Frazier might just have been the only really viable contender left in mid-'68, and it would be hard to turn down an offer for a title shot. It could well be that Frazier would have fought Ali around the time he fought Mathis in real life.

If Ali wins this, Martin and Ellis will probably be next and then fringe contenders like Lewis and perhaps a rematch with Frazier (and/or Quarry if the first fight ended with a cut).

If everything went according to plan the division might just have been scraped absolutely clean by the turn of the decade.

 

I don't think Ali's resume would have ended up a lot deeper in terms of the names on it.

As you say, barring a loss, he has probably cleand house by 70-71 and has to start with the next teir down.

 

His record would be much the same, probably with Spencer as a plus win (or a very damaging loss - one can never know for sure). The big question is which his first loss would be. Would he have gotten past Frazier and even Norton? If so, his first loss might have come when it no longer would mean much.

 

Ali would still have been 2 -1 over Frazier,if the fights had taken place earlier,imo. Only difference being,Ali would have won 1 & 3,and dropped a close decision in number 2. He might have got a bit complacent following fight number one. Then his fires would have been reignited by the defeat,and convincingly have beaten Joe in the rubber match.

 

That could well be. Or he might have felt that he had something to prove after Frazier had given him a very tough fight the first time around.

 

It is also possible that his higher level of activity in those years, would have caused his physical decline to set in a little earlier.

Perhaps an indirect side effect is that Norton, Young or even Shavers get to him late in his title reign.

 

That's an equally as good way of looking at it.

 

Ali would have had at least a dozen fights in this period. He was fighting 5 or 6 times a year at the point of exile, Barring '64 when waiting for the Liston fight and '65 when he had his hernia operation. In '62 he had 6, '63 3 by June when he secured the title shot, '66 he was in the ring 5 times and twice in '67 by March. Considering he would go on to fight 8 out of '68s top ten post exile i suspect he gets through them well before 1970 and starts through another lot of contenders