Liston vs Wlad Klitschko

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by HENDO, Dec 5, 2010.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    Wladimir Klitschko is really good at what he does, but I dont see it working against a fighter of Liston's ability.
    Liston by KO.
     
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    51,183
    25,445
    Jan 3, 2007
    Liston is the obvious favorite, but by no means should this be considered an easy win, or even a given. Wlad's primary weakness was the left hook, not the left jab or the right hand. He was significantly taller than Liston, and while Sonny had the the longer arms, some of that reach would be lost in the height difference, along with Wlad's ability to use the ring. Sonny was not particularly fast on his feet and faired best against those who took the fight strait to him, but either struggled or lost to men who boxed from the outside such as Ali and Machen. I'm also not sure that he took a good punch from a man of Klit's power, and was broken down early by an accumulation of shots from Ali. Wlad is easily hurt, but the key is that you have to land flush on him, and preferably with a good left hook. We haven't seen much of that since Manny took over his camp, and I'm not sure Sonny would have many clean opportunities.. He'd have to create his own openings, and in so doing, would eat a fair amount of leather in the process....

    Again, I'll go with Sonny, but I won't say that with much conviction.
     
  3. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

    37,427
    89
    Jul 19, 2004
    Liston is only 6 feet tall. He would not have a reach advantage punching up at Wlad. More importanly... I don't think that Liston's arm length is longer than Wlad's anyways... which is what really matters.
     
  4. Foreman Hook

    Foreman Hook ☆☆☆ G$ora ☆☆☆ Full Member

    8,234
    16
    Jul 30, 2010
    **** size you obessive ****, paper-mache chin WALDO is getting KTFO in 6 Rounds or less. :deal
     
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    51,183
    25,445
    Jan 3, 2007

    If size made no difference, then why did Liston enjoy the convenience of having most of his opponents come in under 200 lbs.
     
  6. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    He kept his back off the ropes for 12 rounds against a bull rushing Peter. I don't doubt his reverse gear.


    I agree, the Williams fights show Liston's patience and resilience. Rest assured though, Wlad at no point will gear towards a punch-up. Liston might be able to force one, but I'm not sure.
     
  7. HENDO

    HENDO Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,075
    6
    Mar 20, 2010
    Peter is not a good example considering he only threw 9 jabs the entire fight.

    Not to mention the fact that while Klitschko was in reverse, his accuracy was horrible as he's not a very effective counterpuncher and cannot punch on the move.

    If anything, Klitschko needs his opponent to stand right in front of him to be effective. And when his opponent rushes him, Klitschko typically clinches.

    In the first few rounds against Peter, Peter's movement was actually troubling Klitschko, but Peter began to slow early on, and Klitschko was able to effectively apply his clinch.

    I think he made a great post because if Liston is allowed to dominate the pace of the fight, his short stature and long reach will actually work in his advantage because he can make himself a relatively small target while simeltaneously punching upwards.

    Wlad can back away all he wants, but he's not going to win any rounds that way, and if anything he's going to just set himself up for a long left hook, which was one of Liston's best punches.

    I think the version of Wlad that fought Corrie Sanders would be the best one to do this job where Wlad was at his physical prime, was most mobile, and wasn't afraid to get hit.

    But even then his chin is still questionable. But there is no doubt in my mind that the current version gets flattened.
     
  8. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,560
    Jul 28, 2004
  9. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,560
    Jul 28, 2004
  10. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

    24,478
    128
    Aug 13, 2009
    :lol::rofl Go back to General, Hendo. Your better at making absurd posts about Wlad ducking all these available "threats" and what not.
     
  11. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

    28,760
    84
    May 30, 2009
    I can't get go with Wlad because I'm not confident enough in his resiliency. This seems funny to say in a H2H matchup with Liston involved. While I favor Liston I could see him losing too. I just think he presses Wlad enough and once Wlad feels that power... forget about it. He'll by so panicked. Liston may not have had the best footwork in the world but this is Wlad, not Muhammad Ali. His double jab would be fine as long as he presses forward which he would do. Wlad doesn't counter-punch well. In fact, Wlad doesn't seem to like to counter-punch. He just doens't like to give himself away or have that chance of being quite open. So if you press him he either has to fight more or fold... he'd lose against Liston trying either way.

    It's possible Wlad's power deters Liston enough to not try anything and force a corner quit job, though. But I don't see Wlad lasting all that long. There's always a chance Liston isn't fast enough at pressing him. Wlad could fight in reverse more and be effective with that power. I still think the most like option is...

    Early Liston KO.
     
  12. DaveK

    DaveK Vicious & Malicious Full Member

    3,668
    35
    Mar 2, 2009

    Wlad has a reverse gear, I stated that he doesn't have wheels in the classical sense- steady movement. He likes to jab, and if you go forward, he takes a step back to maintain that distance. He's very good at maintaining distance, but not a "mover" in any sense...


    That's why I stated in a previous post that he would do well to get aggressive, but that's not his mentality or his style.

    He likes to keep things at a distance where he can see things coming and he has control.
     
  13. HENDO

    HENDO Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,075
    6
    Mar 20, 2010
    Because I a combination between logic and reality to analyze fights?

    What did I say that you can break down?

    The Wlad that fought against Corrie Sanders was young, fast, and willing to scrap.

    So what you're saying is that the guy that fought Corrie Sanders is no different that the guy that is fighting today?

    And are you saying that Wlad has a great chin? Let me ask you this, has or has not Wlad been on the ground at least 11 times?
     
  14. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

    24,478
    128
    Aug 13, 2009
    When it comes to Wlad you have no concept of logic or analysis..you've been a joke in general for some time. Sadly, all you ever post about is Wlad....it grew tiresome in General and it will grow even more tiresome in Classic.

    The Wlad that fought Sanders aggressively walked into punches and couldn't deal with any type of pressure. He was TKOed in 2 by a fringe contender. Yes, I'm sure that version of Wlad would be much better equiped for dealing with Liston...:nut
     
  15. HENDO

    HENDO Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,075
    6
    Mar 20, 2010
    But as several notable posters have already said, a more aggressive version of Wlad would fair much better against Liston who has had problems with movers (Wlad is not) and with Clevend Williams for instance that brought the fight right to him.

    Wlad is not a good mover, and typically his defense when his opponent is making him uncomfortable (aka backing him up) is to clinch. He has very little counterpunching ability, and he is incredibly accurate when he attempts to punch on the move. He's also reluctant to put himself in a position to throw big shots because he knows his chin is a significant liability.

    People say that Liston's size will be a disadvantage, but I think it will actually be an advantage given the fact that Liston has a longer reach. This will allow him to be a small target, force Wlad to bend at the waist and bend his knees to hit him, (something he is not very good at, especially at this stage in his career, but better at it when he fought Sanders in his athletic prime), and use his long, powerful jab effectively to push Wlad back.

    Wlad isn't a counterpuncher, and he doesn't have the lateral mobility to get out of the way, so he will be tagged repeatedly. The version of today wilts much faster than an aggressive Wlad who has a chance due to his power, because the version today will likely shell up, panic, and then get knocked out.

    Why don't you write something that proves this otherwise. Perhaps in your mind, Wlad has the lateral mobility of Ali despite never proving it once in his career.

    I know you're in love with the man, but don't let it cloud your objectivity. I mean, the Wlad today was afraid to engage Ibriganov who couldn't touch him. Imagine how he would react to Liston who CAN.

    A side note is that the classic forum currently aggrees with this assessment as you can see by the voting.

    So take your bias elsewhere. Wlad can be beat and he has and definitely not by great fighters.